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/Facepalm
Your God will have no final judgement over any of us.
And only the very fluffy practice any kind of 'pagan revenge' as you describe.
Your Revelations was written by a trippy angry man, not by your God.
The negative energy you might feel directed towards you, come about mostly from your inaccurate statements about persons you do not seem to understand much about, and whom you lump with the more demonstrable description of your average vocal evangelical.
Having practised on both sides, if Pagans continued through life ever increasing their good karma and Christians continued through life following the teachings of Jesus, then none of us would have any problems. Some for Summerland and others for Heaven (1)!
However, the vast majority on both sides do not follow through on their religious beliefs but sink to the basic desires of human nature, directing outbursts of negative emotional energy towards anyone who is either different or who represents a threat to them. Therefore on a human level we will always be at war with one another, which is unfortunate but true.
But ultimately it is not the Christians that Pagans should be concerned about, but the Lord God and what he specifically says, and the Lord God warns of the ultimate punishment, here quoted:
Revelation 21:8 …those who practice magic arts …their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulphur… the second death.
and... wait for it!
Those who practice witchcraft (aka sorcery) will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:20-21).
Now that's quite a set of words, and if you have walked and have been part of any Satanic circle you will know that one of the highest virtues is lying; but within Christian circles, truth (2). Therefore as the above words relate to the master of truth (Jesus) and not the deceiver (Satan), then they must be true. Additionally, those Pagans who also believe in Jesus and his teachings of love (and there are many) should also concede that the words spoken by Jesus in the Book of Revelations will come about.
On the other hand, Pagans who do not agree with this viewpoint, can always use an occult revenge spell on Christians, but that wouldn't be good karma or take inspiration from the 4th book of Magick in Theory and Practice by Aleister Crowley(3)(circa 1929), again not good karma, and personally why bother!
Maybe Christians should give the Pagan community an apology and stop trying to beat them up. If anybody is going to dish out any criticism, punishment or final judgement, it will be the Lord God; and I suspect on both Pagans and Christians alike when the time comes.(4) But for the moment there is absolutely no need for any quarrels, arguments or pointing of fingers, because it's just all hot air!
(1) You had it right here, why didn't you quit while you were ahead? I will go to the Summerland upon my death and be given a review of my life where I will have to account for everything; all the smiles, all the scars. Christians will go to Heaven or Hell where the righteous will walk on streets paved with gold, and the backsliders will burn in the firey furnace.
(2)I have moved very comfortably throughout the Witchcraft/Wiccan/Pagan community for nearly 50 years and have seen no such thing as a Satanic circle. I'm sure they exist, but they are not the norm. I'm sorry if this was your experience while having practiced on "both sides." By the way, I've seen some liars in all the world's religions, including Christianity.
(3) If this is where you are getting your information, I can see why you think the things you are saying here, especially about Pagans and Witchcraft. Please read Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America Today by Margot Adler for a broader view.
(4) Which "Lord God?" I have several of them. None of them are dishing out criticism, punishment, or final judgment, least of all on Christians who do not follow them.
Here's the thing...Pagans aren't trying to get into Heaven, we're going to the Summerland, which you correctly pointed out. Saying Pagans aren't going to go to Heaven because they're not following the Bible is a bit like a referee chastising baseball players for not making a touchdown.
I have known people who are Pagan or Wiccan, I never ever herd of any of them casting a revenge spell. From what I understood doing something like that is a big no no. Why judge why be mean, just live a good life and try to be kind to others.
Patscats, what you said about accounting for everything has me thinking. I have always believed that when you die you will feel every unkind thing you did to someone as that person felt it in life.If you can understand and feel the pain of that person, learn from it and have more compassion then you are on the right track,if not then you have a ton more learning to do(I guess thats when karma kicks in)
I'm not a pagan or a catholic, but I would believe that Jesus would probably not really have an opinion on Paganism. I think in his time he probably would have not even thought twice about them since ancient Christianity (as opposed to Catholicism) was probably not incredibly hostile to Paganism. Christianity in its truest form is probably not that much different than Confuciusism. In fact, rumor has it that Jesus actually wasn't killed on the cross but that he immigrated to Japan and taught the ancient Japanese their language and religion. There's not much scientific basis to it but some of the ancedotal evidence suggests that Eastern religion and ancient Christianity may be closer than we thought. I wouldn't be surprised if Paganism and the Abrahamic faiths might have more similarities than we thought.
Are you thinking of Christs missing years? That is the first time I heard a false death therory... Note theer is no western record of Christ from like 17 to 23 or something like that... It is my understanding that is when he traveled to the east...
I question the missing writings of Christ, and the manipulation of history to benefit the church... (Mans work of power and greed..) That was too bad... I believe the message was missed.
I believe Christ was a special person, like other special people before him... I also believe what he had to say was beyond our ability to comprehend, and was twisted and demented by those in positions of power... It is human nature to succumb to power and greed...
---
Anyway.. I am not a Christian, or practice any religion of any sorts... Nor am I a Atheist.. Just follow my own path. Of course that path crosses paths with many different belief structure found in humanity around the world... Yes, this solitary path denies me the "power" gained by the group. (Which I will admit a group is fun to play with on the psychic plane with on occasion.) But it is not the path..
I suppose I could be put in a box of eclectic Pagan.. I do not waste my time with trying to put the concept of "god" in a box with everything else our species is so predisposed to do..... I worship nothing. Humblity, and openness to absorb as many lessons from the minutia of the natural world around me.. To give more positive than I receive, to attempt to abstain from the trappings of negitivity, fear and hate.
So this homosapien thinks highly of the Christ that exists between my ears and in my heart.... It is not the same Christ that many worship..
I will admit to having a fairly high level of disdane for certain sects of all 3 Abrahamic religions that cause so much pain and suffering, and shed each others blood over their beliefs...... It is hard to have good thoughts about those...
(1) You had it right here, why didn't you quit while you were ahead? I will go to the Summerland upon my death and be given a review of my life where I will have to account for everything; all the smiles, all the scars. Christians will go to Heaven or Hell where the righteous will walk on streets paved with gold, and the backsliders will burn in the firey furnace.
(2)I have moved very comfortably throughout the Witchcraft/Wiccan/Pagan community for nearly 50 years and have seen no such thing as a Satanic circle. I'm sure they exist, but they are not the norm. I'm sorry if this was your experience while having practiced on "both sides." By the way, I've seen some liars in all the world's religions, including Christianity.
(3) If this is where you are getting your information, I can see why you think the things you are saying here, especially about Pagans and Witchcraft. Please read Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America Today by Margot Adler for a broader view.
(4) Which "Lord God?" I have several of them. None of them are dishing out criticism, punishment, or final judgment, least of all on Christians who do not follow them.
Here's the thing...Pagans aren't trying to get into Heaven, we're going to the Summerland, which you correctly pointed out. Saying Pagans aren't going to go to Heaven because they're not following the Bible is a bit like a referee chastising baseball players for not making a touchdown.
I lived in Summerland for three years. Still have dreams sometimes with Summerland settings of my childhood experience. That's where I experienced what Jesus did when one day when I was about 12 I was running down a high hill with a friend yelling all the way down and falling at the end, getting up laughing until I looked at my right hand and saw the stick poking all the way through it. I had landed just right it seems on a small wild mustard plant and it's stalk went right through my hand. Didn't hurt for a couple of hours then hurt like hell for three days and was sore for weeks. But I did grow in size and age to become a prophet of God.
In all honesty, the Christian worship of Jesus, Mary, God, the holy spirit, angels, and saints makes Christianity look just as polytheistic as Paganism. Add to this the fact that Christian America celebrates many Pagan Holidays, but call them Christian names (such as Christmas and Easter) sheds some light onto what's really going on.
It's all ironic to me. Protestant Christian America rejects Paganism and accepts the bible as 100% fact. However, their bible was canonized by the once Pagan Roman empire. This is why Christians don't celebrate their God on the 7th day of the week (Saturday). They celebrate their God on the 1st day of the week (Sunday). Sunday is the same day of worship for the ancient Roman God of the Sun. Even today, Christians go to "Sunrise" service on Easter Sunday.
For those who still aren't convinced, explain to me then why the pope's hat looks very similar to the hat worn by ancient Pagan priests worshiping their "fish God" Dagon.
Now you guys know where this popular Christian "fish" symbol came from:
I'll just be blunt; Christianity is the most recent form of Paganism. There, I've said it. Let's move on shall we...
Sorry, but you're confusing bible believing Christianity with Catholicism. Catholics are not Christians at all. The Catholic doctrine is idolatry to the core. Born again Christians belive in ONE God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Three distinctive persons in ONE.
Also, we (Christians) do NOT worship Mary, Angels nor saints. In fact, we are saints of God, because we have the Holy Spirit living in us. I should point out that Christiantiy isn't even a religion. Religion is man's attempt to get to a Holy God. That is impossible, because the nature of humans is sin (evil works) and God is a perfect and holy being.
We need Jesus because he is the way, the truth and the life. No man can get to Heaven without becoming born again. We must believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the savior of our souls. Once that is done you are saved by the blood of Christ, and immediately the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you. You will be part of the kingdom of God.
All religions say you must do a certain thing or things to get to Heaven, but Christianity is completely different. Christianity is all about what Jesus did on the cross. He died in our place as a sacrfice for our sins. Accept His sacrifice and be free from the curse and damnation of sin.
As I believe, my eclectic take on Wicca (nature oriented) it isn't polythestic. There is one spirit, and has different forms, but it is still just one. The elements are parts of it which united define the center. Other creatures may exist, which draw more directly from the energies, and are different than us, but they are not 'gods' but among the living landscape.
As to the above poster, I'm sure Catholics would be quite surprised they aren't christan... And I'd ask this... to me a connecition is there in all of us to the Mother. We can draw on it or not. Which is OUR choice. How is this any different than a christan having a divine spark from God in them?
I reject the whole sacrifice thing and don't believe that J Christ was anything more than a very wise HUMAN BEING with a connection to wisdom, whose followers made him a son of god with a lot of addins. The Romans exectued many others who claimed to be prohpets and visionaries if it looked they'd make trouble. He was just one of them.
Because in reality we are ALL children of the Godess. Call her God or whatever else, I see all religion as drawing from the same source with different interpretation and culturally defined particulars.
God/Godess/Great Spirit is a unifying energy and we recognize its nature differently.
Sorry, but you're confusing bible believing Christianity with Catholicism. Catholics are not Christians at all. The Catholic doctrine is idolatry to the core. Born again Christians belive in ONE God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Three distinctive persons in ONE.
Also, we (Christians) do NOT worship Mary, Angels nor saints. In fact, we are saints of God, because we have the Holy Spirit living in us. I should point out that Christiantiy isn't even a religion. Religion is man's attempt to get to a Holy God. That is impossible, because the nature of humans is sin (evil works) and God is a perfect and holy being.
We need Jesus because he is the way, the truth and the life. No man can get to Heaven without becoming born again. We must believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the savior of our souls. Once that is done you are saved by the blood of Christ, and immediately the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you. You will be part of the kingdom of God.
All religions say you must do a certain thing or things to get to Heaven, but Christianity is completely different. Christianity is all about what Jesus did on the cross. He died in our place as a sacrfice for our sins. Accept His sacrifice and be free from the curse and damnation of sin.
As I believe, my eclectic take on Wicca (nature oriented) it isn't polythestic. There is one spirit, and has different forms, but it is still just one. The elements are parts of it which united define the center. Other creatures may exist, which draw more directly from the energies, and are different than us, but they are not 'gods' but among the living landscape.
As to the above poster, I'm sure Catholics would be quite surprised they aren't christan... And I'd ask this... to me a connecition is there in all of us to the Mother. We can draw on it or not. Which is OUR choice. How is this any different than a christan having a divine spark from God in them?
I reject the whole sacrifice thing and don't believe that J Christ was anything more than a very wise HUMAN BEING with a connection to wisdom, whose followers made him a son of god with a lot of addins. The Romans exectued many others who claimed to be prohpets and visionaries if it looked they'd make trouble. He was just one of them.
Because in reality we are ALL children of the Godess. Call her God or whatever else, I see all religion as drawing from the same source with different interpretation and culturally defined particulars.
God/Godess/Great Spirit is a unifying energy and we recognize its nature differently.
I think Eddie Griffin sums this up easy; "It doesnt matter who the messenger is, did you get the message?"
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