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Old 05-21-2009, 11:33 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,510,346 times
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Here's an interesting quote from a lay article about gender identity (see article references for scholarly works):

Quote:
Most will outgrow symptoms of gender identity disorder before adolescence. By late adolescence or adulthood, about three quarters of boys with symptoms of gender identity disorder report homosexual or bisexual orientations. Most of the remaining 25 percent live as heterosexuals [source: Merck]. A small percentage of adolescents and adults will go on to identify as transsexuals.
Symptoms and Diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorders

I am inclined to believe that the best course of action for a child with this issue is family counseling aimed at strengthening the parent-child bond and the delay of permanent treatment options, such as hormones or surgery, until adulthood.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,012,832 times
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I agree that gender identity disorder is a real condition. What a terrible thing to suffer from. No, it's not the same thing as being a tomboy or a "sissy," and any good psych doctor will know the difference. As far as I know, there are also congenital traits like chromosomal abnormalities, big hormone imbalances, etc.

I don't believe the mother is necessarily making a mistake, but I believe it's a private decision between her, her child and her child's doctors. I understand wanting to show your support for other afflicted people, but give your kid some privacy.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:43 AM
 
Location: chicagoland
1,636 posts, read 3,657,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
The FACTS are that there are many children who want to be the opposite gender for a while or for several years, and yet later change their minds and gladly "revert" to their birth gender. I should know, I was one of them. I wanted to be a boy for the first ten years of my life.

Then, I grew out of it, and became the happy, well-adjusted female that I am today.

Yes, some of these kids "grow out of it" but they weren't really transgendered.

This is different. The girl does't just want to be a girl she IS a girl on the inside. She drew self portraits at an extremely young age. She told friends that she is different on the inside than on the outside. That is way different than your situation.

Bottom line for any of our views/opinions:

1. Parent's AND child's choice
2. Child's privacy
3. No hormones/drugs/surgery until child is old enough to decide for his/herself
4. counciling from a therapists who deals with transgender adults AND children
5. Let the child BE as the child is and support the child no matter what
6. Don't be mean

Last edited by miasmommy; 05-21-2009 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Here... for now
1,747 posts, read 2,621,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
...Imagine that boy's psychological state when he starts to get the natural boy curiosity about girls but he's dressed as a girl and uses the girl's bathroom. What a mess that will create...
Thing is, this child may not get "natural boy curiosity". Perhaps she will have "natural girl curiosity" since her mindset is that of a girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
...It is unbelievable that a parent will destroy their own child like that. And that lunatic doctor should be put behind bars to advocate that in such young children.
In my opinion, mom is not "destroying" the child. In my opinion, what would be destructive would be to poo-poo this child's feelings, telling her she's wrong and that, no, she doesn't feel like a girl, this, too shall pass. In my opinion, the doctor is not a "lunatic", should not be behind bars and is doing the child, her family and the greater community a service.

Stormy, I agree with you on a lot of subjects with regard to parenting, but on this one, we are at polar opposites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okpondlady View Post
... I think it is terrible the parents are allowing an 8 year old to make life changing decisions...
The parents aren't allowing her to "make life changing decisions". Transgender isn't a "decision", from what I understand of it. Transgender is, apparently, who she is, not what she has decided to be.

She is not (yet) having the surgery, or even any hormones. She's simply growing out her hair, playing with toys that are most typically associated with girls and dressing in a style more typical of girls. I don't recall the report saying anything about which bathroom she uses. Maybe she uses the one in the office?

As far as the news report itself, I'm torn. The greater good is that the topic is being discussed. The downside is, if the parents wanted the child to have a fresh start where no one knows her, that's not going to be possible since people who recognise mom will put 2 and 2 together.

Transgender folks, from the way I understand it, "know" from a very early age.

For those of you who haven't seen it, please consider watching "A Girl Like Me: The Gwen Arouja Story". It's a movie based on a real-life teen who was murdered in 2002. Or look up the reports done by Barbara Walters for the TV show 20/20 in 2007. If I'm not mistaken, one report was titled "I'm a Girl" and another was titled "Born in the Wrong Body". I'm sure you can do a search for them.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:50 AM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,151,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miasmommy View Post
Yes, some of these kids "grow out of it" but they weren't really transgendered.

This is different. The girl does't just want to be a girl she IS a girl on the inside. She drew self portraits at an extremely young age. She told friends that she is different on the inside than on the outside. That is way different than your situation.
You have no idea what my "situation" was like. I didn't give any details.

His parents should allow him to dress how he wishes at home, play with the toys he wishes to play with, call himself whatever name he enjoys calling himself, but they shouldn't call him a girl because he is not. It should be lovingly and gently reinforced that he is a boy, he was born a boy, and that he will remain a boy until he is an adult, at which time he will be able to make his own decisions about things.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:54 AM
 
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Nelly & ZugZub...rep points coming to both of you. I think your perspectives are valuable additions to this thread.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,012,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miasmommy View Post
Yes, some of these kids "grow out of it" but they weren't really transgendered.

This is different. The girl does't just want to be a girl she IS a girl on the inside. She drew self portraits at an extremely young age. She told friends that she is different on the inside than on the outside. That is way different than your situation.

Bottom line for any of our views/opinions:

1. Parent's choice
2. Child's privacy
3. No hormones/drugs/surgery until child is old enough to decide for his/herself
4. counciling from a therapists who deals with transgender adults AND children
5. Let the child BE as the child is and support the child no matter what
6. Don't be mean
I agree with you ... mostly. I think #1 should be amended to "Parents' and child's choice." If the parent dictates, "No, you are a boy and that's that," he or she is making the choice for the child. That can cause big problems.

I also don't agree wholeheartedly with #5. I do think that the child's feelings and confusion should be supported, because YES, of course the kid is going to be confused. But I don't know that the answer is simple. It's not like a boy can just wear a dress and ask his schoolmates to call him Sally--that's asking for trouble. Hypotehtically, because all kids are different and there's no one answer for all of them, maybe it would be better to allow the child to live as a girl AT HOME.

I would talk to the kid, with the doctors' help, and say that a lot of people aren't going to understand what's going on yet. Some people are going to make fun, some people are going to be downright mean, and some people are probably going to try to hurt you. Some people don't understand, and they think this is wrong and gross. We can't change how those people feel, not right now, mayube not ever, and the best thing to do is to live our lives and let them live their lives. Right now, it will just be between us, and when you are older, we can talk about other times.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:14 PM
 
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Polycystic ovary syndrome: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com
Signs of excess androgen. Elevated levels of male hormones..

Increased aggression and activity level in 3- to 11-year-old girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia
"2. girls with CAH are more aggressive and active than their unaffected sisters; and 3. boys with and without CAH are similar to one another in aggression and activity level. These data suggest that early androgens have a masculinizing effect on both aggressive behavior and activity level in girls."

"..In addition to a masculinized appearance at birth, females with classical CAH display increases in some male-typical behaviors from early childhood. For instance, there are consistent reports that girls with the disorder show enhanced preferences for toys and activities normally preferred by boys and for boys as playmates.."

This is how it pertains to girls, and it is similar with boys. When it is a biological problem, and treated with hormone therapy it can be balanced. Why is that so difficult to understand.

Had I been the parent of a child with these tendancies (as this young boy), I would allow it to take it's course. IF it was a case of imbalanced hormone levels, I would seek medical hormone therapy to balance and correct it the levels.

There is NO WAY I would pacify my child to change identity ESPECIALLY as a minor.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: chicagoland
1,636 posts, read 3,657,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
You have no idea what my "situation" was like. I didn't give any details.

His parents should allow him to dress how he wishes at home, play with the toys he wishes to play with, call himself whatever name he enjoys calling himself, but they shouldn't call him a girl because he is not. It should be lovingly and gently reinforced that he is a boy, he was born a boy, and that he will remain a boy until he is an adult, at which time he will be able to make his own decisions about things.

I know what you have told me. You said you grew out of it. That isn't common with transgendered children. So I stand by what I said.

I wasn't trying to be mean or offend you.

I disagree. Not allowing the child to BE as he or she really IS on the inside will cause much much much more trouble for the kid in the long run.

Why don't some of you check out some of the interviews and studies done on these adults. They haven't grown out of it and are in therapy because of their parents and peers. Medicine isn't an option.

What if one of you "regular" females woke up one morning with a penis but still felt like a girl on the inside? Would you want a pill or hormone to make you feel like a boy????

Doesn't make sense
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:21 PM
 
1,986 posts, read 3,468,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
You have no idea what my "situation" was like. I didn't give any details.

His parents should allow him to dress how he wishes at home, play with the toys he wishes to play with, call himself whatever name he enjoys calling himself, but they shouldn't call him a girl because he is not. It should be lovingly and gently reinforced that he is a boy, he was born a boy, and that he will remain a boy until he is an adult, at which time he will be able to make his own decisions about things.
I agree.
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