City data needs a Northwestern PA category

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by gousa14

I dread the day when Erie downgrades to Pennsylvania's 5th populated city.

I am not sure why this would be such a bad thing, especially because the future population trend for Erie looks relatively positive and dipping to fifth for a few years would probably not really be a big deal. I am also not sure if the 2020 census will show Erie at or below 100,000, but even if Erie dips below 100,000 people by the 2020 census, most projections I have seen show Erie well above the 100,000 mark by 2030 and definitely by 2040. Many reports have also shown that a good number of the people who have left the city of Erie have stayed in Erie County and more needs to be done to attract these people to move back to the city. Here is a good quote and example of what I am talking about:

"Out migration from the city to surrounding areas in the county has continued.**The city
of Erie has lost almost thirteen percent (12.92%) of its population since 1980.**The rest of Erie
County has absorbed much of this loss."

Needs Assessment

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

More shocking psychologically for people in Northwestern PA will be when Erie's population estimate is under 100,000, which, sadly, could happen this year.

I am not sure if I speak for the masses, but estimates of the population being below 100,000 wouldn't really bother me that much, I think it would be more shocking if the actual census count in 2020 demonstrated the population to be below 100,000. Similarly, I would be very shocked if when the official census is done in 2020 that Pittsburgh did not demonstrate any population growth from 2010-2020.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

I am not sure why this would be such a bad thing, especially because the future population trend for Erie looks relatively positive and dipping to fifth for a few years would probably not really be a big deal. I am also not sure if the 2020 census will show Erie at or below 100,000, but even if Erie dips below 100,000 people by the 2020 census, most projections I have seen show Erie well above the 100,000 mark by 2030 and definitely by 2040. Many reports have also shown that a good number of the people who have left the city of Erie have stayed in Erie County and more needs to be done to attract these people to move back to the city. Here is a good quote and example of what I am talking about:

"Out migration from the city to surrounding areas in the county has continued.**The city
of Erie has lost almost thirteen percent (12.92%) of its population since 1980.**The rest of Erie
County has absorbed much of this loss."

Needs Assessment

Summit Township, Fairview Township, and Millcreek Township are all bursting at the seams with City of Erie expatriates and continue to grow slowly while Erie continues to decline slowly.

2010:
Fairview Township: 10,102
Millcreek Township: 53,517
Summit Township: 6,603
TOTAL: 70,222

2013 (Estimates):
Fairview Township: 10,221
Millcreek Township: 54,239
Summit Township: 6,700
TOTAL: 71,160

I've day-tripped in Erie numerous times and come back to visit and explore whenever I'm able to do so. Yes, there are some rougher neighborhoods (as with any city); however, you also have neighborhoods like Frontier Park which, in my opinion, would blow any cul-de-sac in those three aforementioned townships out of the water in terms of quality-of-life.

You live in the city, trackstar. What does a place like Summit Township or Fairview Township offer that the city can't other than the typical nonsensical tap-dancing around white parents not wanting to send their kids to public school with black kids?

Originally Posted by trackstar13

I am not sure if I speak for the masses, but estimates of the population being below 100,000 wouldn't really bother me that much, I think it would be more shocking if the actual census count in 2020 demonstrated the population to be below 100,000. Similarly, I would be very shocked if when the official census is done in 2020 that Pittsburgh did not demonstrate any population growth from 2010-2020.

The newest estimate will probably put Erie somewhere around 99,800 and Reading somewhere around 91,000. I think psychologically you feel like the gap is much closer than it truly is, then, sort of like how retailers fool many people into looking at a $19.99 price tag and thinking "Wow! This sweater is only $19!" Reading moving up from 89,000+ to 90,000+ and Erie declining from 100,000+ to 99,000+ is going to be a hard pill for many who love Erie to swallow.

As far as Pittsburgh is concerned certain parts of town, namely the urban core neighborhoods contiguous with Downtown and Oakland, seem to be growing very rapidly, as traffic congestion, cycling congestion, and pedestrian congestion have all increased here in the East End just since I moved here in 2010. With that being said the outer neighborhoods like Lincoln Place, Sheraden, Brighton Heights, Carrick, etc. continue to shart the bed, so Pittsburgh's 2020 population count will hinge upon how successful the rest of the city has been on picking up those neighborhoods' slack.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

S
You live in the city, trackstar. What does a place like Summit Township or Fairview Township offer that the city can't other than the typical nonsensical tap-dancing around white parents not wanting to send their kids to public school with black kids?

Reading moving up from 89,000+ to 90,000+ and Erie declining from 100,000+ to 99,000+ is going to be a hard pill for many who love Erie to swallow.

As far as Pittsburgh is concerned certain parts of town, namely the urban core neighborhoods contiguous with Downtown and Oakland, seem to be growing very rapidly, as traffic congestion, cycling congestion, and pedestrian congestion have all increased here in the East End just since I moved here in 2010. With that being said the outer neighborhoods like Lincoln Place, Sheraden, Brighton Heights, Carrick, etc. continue to shart the bed, so Pittsburgh's 2020 population count will hinge upon how successful the rest of the city has been on picking up those neighborhoods' slack.

The biggest issues I see as a resident of the city of Erie right now are poverty and taxes. Erie has a huge poverty issue and it seems that it is hard for the schools to succeed because parents are working multiple jobs to pay the bills and it is hard for them to be involved in their child's education. In terms of taxes, many people try to escape the city's high property taxes and move to a suburb or outlying area with significantly lower property taxes. In addition to this issue, new construction of housing in the city is rather limited and many of the businesses in the city are non-profits. In other words, the taxbase is declining and in turn taxes are raised fairly often.

In terms of Erie going below 100K in population I was simply pointing out in my last post that there is a big difference between an estimate and a census count that is etched in stone for 10 more years. If Erie fell below 100K in an estimate, but exhibited small growth or stayed at 100K by the 2020 census I am not sure many people would even notice or care.

In regards to my previous comments about Pittsburgh, I truly believe Pittsburgh has grown and is growing, but as I was trying to point out before that I would be absolutely shocked if the 2020 census count demonstrated no increase or a decrease in the Pittsburgh population from 2010. This would probably be more shocking to me than Erie dropping below 100K, because Pittsburgh definitely feels much bigger than the population count and many city neighborhoods seem to be improving.

[SunshineBird]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

You live in the city, trackstar. What does a place like Summit Township or Fairview Township offer that the city can't other than the typical nonsensical tap-dancing around white parents not wanting to send their kids to public school with black kids?

I've lived in all locations in Erie in my life. The city, the east side in Lawrence Park, Millcreek and now Fairview. There are plenty of great neighborhoods in the city of Erie and perhaps if I didn't have young children whose education is my biggest concern I may consider living in one. Education is very important, however, and it has nothing to do with wanting my children to attend class with black children. Having been through Erie's education system I can say it isn't the best available. Erie has also seen a rise in shootings and murders which has many safety conscious people moving to the suburbs. Even the nicer neighborhoods are seeing this crime spill out onto their streets. My mother lives two blocks from Frontier Park and woke up one morning to a body 20 feet from her front door that had been shot execution style and dumped. Areas like Fairview and Summit also seem to have a stronger sense of community and a feeling of quiet contentment that many people look for. It all depends on your needs and priorities.

[gousa14]

Yeah, sorry if I my post made me sound like a debbie downer, but I guess we should be actually lucky that Erie's population is declining. Cities (at least major ones) have been destroyed by the stupid masses and (possibly?) white decline. Not really racist, but more like cynical IMO. This is a touchy subject.

America lost everything good it had and it's only going to get worse from here on.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by SunshineBird

I've lived in all locations in Erie in my life. The city, the east side in Lawrence Park, Millcreek and now Fairview. There are plenty of great neighborhoods in the city of Erie and perhaps if I didn't have young children whose education is my biggest concern I may consider living in one. Education is very important, however, and it has nothing to do with wanting my children to attend class with black children. Having been through Erie's education system I can say it isn't the best available. Erie has also seen a rise in shootings and murders which has many safety conscious people moving to the suburbs. Even the nicer neighborhoods are seeing this crime spill out onto their streets. My mother lives two blocks from Frontier Park and woke up one morning to a body 20 feet from her front door that had been shot execution style and dumped. Areas like Fairview and Summit also seem to have a stronger sense of community and a feeling of quiet contentment that many people look for. It all depends on your needs and priorities.

While violent crime increased this past year, it was largely contained to very specific areas of erie. The murder you are referring to is one of the many incidents that have occurred at or near a specific nuisance bar that is currently on probation with the city and plcb. I am hoping they clean up their act or they are shut down in the near future. In terms of education, I believe that erie has some of the best and the worst schools in the area with collegiate academy, the private schools, etc. being some of the best. I have to say that we also have a strong sense of community in the city and we are actively involved in our neighborhood watch group and I love the block parties we have in our neighborhood during the summer.