Want to know about colleges/universities in Pennsylvania? (Philadelphia, Scranton: how much, lawyer)

[enviroman]

Ask away! I worked parttime as a college admissions counselor while I was in college. I'd like to think I know a decent amount about the college admissions process...

If you have children going through this process, or if you are a high school student yourself, and you have questions...well, post them here!

I've helped students of all levels. From seniors that want help getting into their local state school to those applies to the best schools in the nation. Before this starts sounding like an advertisement, I want to say that I've never charged for my help. I didn't have any help when I applied to school, so I like helping those who need advice.

If you aren't sure what to ask, here are some questions I've heard numerous times:

1) What are my chances of getting into X school?
2) How important are the SATs?
3) I'm worried about my son/daughter being in the city...is it safe?
4) When should we start looking at and/or visiting colleges?
5) How does financial aid work?

A bit of background on myself:

I graduated from an average high school in 2000, I attended the University of Pennsylvania for my undergrad and I got my master's at Penn State in 2005. Students that I have helped have been accepted into the following PA schools: UPenn, Swarthmore, Carnegie Mellon, Penn State, Millersville, UPitt, Dickinson, St Joes, Villanova, and UScranton.

I'm not sure if anyone will even post here, but I'll try my best to answer any and all questions!

[Stockholmaren]

Can you also give suggestions for graduate school? I'm thinking of moving to the Philly area and go to grad school (MBA and/or management science/operations research) and I was wondering which schools you would recommend?

[enviroman]

Well, luckily Philadelphia is home to the best business school in the world, The Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. Don't let Harvard try and fool you...Wharton is the best.

However, gaining admission to Wharton is extremely difficult. Do you have any work experience in the financial sector? Getting into an MBA program at a good school generally means you'll need about 3-5 years of financial work prior to admission. You'll also need about a 730+ GMAT score.

Where do you do your undergraduate work?

There are other schools that offer MBA programs here in the city, but Wharton is the best, by far. Drexel has a new MBA program. Temple also offers a program. Both of these schools are decent and much easier to get into.

If you'd feel more comfortable PMing me, go for it!

[Adream]

Enviroman,
Nice of you to offer us your expertise! Many thanks!

My DD is an English Major/Criminal Justice minor entering her senior year at Temple University. After graduation, she would like to continue on and get her Law degree, but stay in Philly. She will be taking LSATS this December.

Is that enough info for you to come up with a suggestion? Should she get her degree from Temple Law, or is it better to get the law degree from a different school than the undergrad degree?

Thanks so much!

[newmarlig]

I can tell you Temple Law School is fine, but if she wants a different (more suburban) atmosphere, she could try Villanova. It doesn't matter when it comes to hiring.

[enviroman]

Originally Posted by Adream

Enviroman,
Nice of you to offer us your expertise! Many thanks!

My DD is an English Major/Criminal Justice minor entering her senior year at Temple University. After graduation, she would like to continue on and get her Law degree, but stay in Philly. She will be taking LSATS this December.

Is that enough info for you to come up with a suggestion? Should she get her degree from Temple Law, or is it better to get the law degree from a different school than the undergrad degree?

Thanks so much!

I just asked a lawyer friend of mine and he said that it shouldn't matter if she gets her degree at Temple. I've heard that getting your PhD at the same institution as your undergrad can be looked down upon; however, this does not seem to be the case with Law School.

I can tell you that Temple Law isn't the best law school out there, but it's far from being one of the worst! In fact, it ranks as the 58th best Law School in the US by USNews. Temple is ranked slightly ahead of Villanova (at #60).

What sort of law does she want to practice? Where you get your law degree definitely has a bearing on which major firms will want to higher you. The biggest firms often like to hire people from the top 20 or so law schools. Obviously getting Law Review and good grades at a "lesser" school can help one's case a bit.

Here's a break down of admissions stats for both Villanova and Temple:

Temple:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.09/3.61
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 160/163
Acceptance rate 29.1%
Students employed within 9 mos. 95.6%
Pass bar on first attempt 88.3%

Villanova:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.3/3.66
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 161/163
Acceptance rate 31.6%
Students employed within 9 mos. 97.6%
Pass bar on first attempt 79%

Penn:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.43/3.85
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 166/171
Acceptance rate 12.5%
Students employed within 9 mos. 99.2%
Pass bar on first attempt 93%

Those are the 3 law schools in Philly. Temple and Villanova are pretty much the same in terms of admissions. Penn is much tougher.

I will tell you that LSAT scores do tend to play a large role in law school admissions. Have her contact both Temple and Villanova (and Penn) and ask questions about the admissions process. Ask how much they weigh the LSATS. Ask if they use their own "Law School GPA" system in determining her GPA.

HTH

[Adream]

Originally Posted by enviroman

I just asked a lawyer friend of mine and he said that it shouldn't matter if she gets her degree at Temple. I've heard that getting your PhD at the same institution as your undergrad can be looked down upon; however, this does not seem to be the case with Law School.

I can tell you that Temple Law isn't the best law school out there, but it's far from being one of the worst! In fact, it ranks as the 58th best Law School in the US by USNews. Temple is ranked slightly ahead of Villanova (at #60).

What sort of law does she want to practice? Where you get your law degree definitely has a bearing on which major firms will want to higher you. The biggest firms often like to hire people from the top 20 or so law schools. Obviously getting Law Review and good grades at a "lesser" school can help one's case a bit.

Here's a break down of admissions stats for both Villanova and Temple:

Temple:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.09/3.61
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 160/163
Acceptance rate 29.1%
Students employed within 9 mos. 95.6%
Pass bar on first attempt 88.3%

Villanova:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.3/3.66
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 161/163
Acceptance rate 31.6%
Students employed within 9 mos. 97.6%
Pass bar on first attempt 79%

Penn:

Average GPA (25%/75%) 3.43/3.85
Average LSAT (25%/75%) 166/171
Acceptance rate 12.5%
Students employed within 9 mos. 99.2%
Pass bar on first attempt 93%

Those are the 3 law schools in Philly. Temple and Villanova are pretty much the same in terms of admissions. Penn is much tougher.

I will tell you that LSAT scores do tend to play a large role in law school admissions. Have her contact both Temple and Villanova (and Penn) and ask questions about the admissions process. Ask how much they weigh the LSATS. Ask if they use their own "Law School GPA" system in determining her GPA.

HTH

WOW enviroman! Many, many thanks. I'm printing this out for her! Looking at your information tells me that she may be U of Penn material. Her current GPA is in the high 3's and she feels confident she'll graduate summa *** laude. wow-look at that edit! Okay, how about summa "come" laude? Anyway, she's a smart cookie!
Newmarlig, thank you for your response. You seem confident, is this your line of work?
I think my DD is considering contract law, specifically entertainment law, or perhaps family law. I know of people who do the latter, and have remarked about the high burn-out rate. DD has a keen analytical mind and incredible reading comprehension - that tells me that contract law would be right up her alley.
Thanks to you both!

[enviroman]

Originally Posted by Adream

WOW enviroman! Many, many thanks. I'm printing this out for her! Looking at your information tells me that she may be U of Penn material. Her current GPA is in the high 3's and she feels confident she'll graduate summa *** laude. wow-look at that edit! Okay, how about summa "come" laude? Anyway, she's a smart cookie!
Newmarlig, thank you for your response. You seem confident, is this your line of work?
I think my DD is considering contract law, specifically entertainment law, or perhaps family law. I know of people who do the latter, and have remarked about the high burn-out rate. DD has a keen analytical mind and incredible reading comprehension - that tells me that contract law would be right up her alley.
Thanks to you both!

You'll find out if she's "Penn material" once she gets her LSATs back. To get in from Temple she'll probably need a 170+ (98 or 99th %) with a 3.85+ GPA. As unfair as it may seem, a school like Penn is going to treat a 3.8 from Temple much differently than a 3.8 from a top 25 university. That's why the ultra high LSAT becomes that much more important. It will be used as it should, to differentiate between two different applicants.

Many of the applicants to Penn will be students with 167+ LSATS and 3.7+ GPAs from Ivy league (and other elite) schools. The difference between a 161 (Temples LSAT average) and a 168 (Penn's average) is much larger than it seems. A 168 is generally in the 97-98th% whereas a 161 is 85th%.

To put the LSAT difference into another light: It's like a 1230 (85th%) and a 1440 (98th) on the SATs...that sort of difference. Since she already took her SATS, you should appreciate how big of a difference this is.

If she can crack a 168 she'll have a shot at Penn, but I'd say a 170+ (99th%) would really be necessary to give her a legitimate shot.

[newmarlig]

I am a legal secretary. Drexel also now has a law school. It is new. Your daughter might also want to check into that. Another idea would be Rutgers in Camden. I don't know where she lives, but that is easily accessible on the NJ High Speed line in center city.

[Adream]

Just talked with DD, she says she may also check out Law Schools in the general mid-atlantic region i.e. PA (not only Philly), DE, MD, NY (low on list because of co$t of living), but not NJ. Any ideas there? (And MANY THANKS in advance!)
I'm sending her ALL of the information you're sharing.