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, but does anyone actually have examples of a bank that did not replace the person's money when it was pretty clear that it was used fraudulently?
Yes, I can. A friend who had her credit card hacked on line. The bank dragged its feet for months, and (at my suggestion) she complained to the Comptroller of Currency in Washington, who demanded an explanation from the bank, which then said she had not filled out all the necessary paperwork. This, after making about five trips to the bank personally and addressing the issue with the branch manager himself, and filling out all the forms in his presence. After six months, the bank h as not yet, to this day, made full restitution.
Visa has what they call a "zero liability poolicy", and when contacted about it, just replied with a form letter saying "tell it to the bank".
By the way, if you ever have a bank or credit card issuer behaving in a way that you think is unjustified, write a letter to the Comptroller of Currency. They will follow it up, and the bank will snap to attention when they hear from the Comptroller.
I balance my "virtual checkbook" every day (literally) by checking my bank accounts online. Takes <5 minutes to balance to the penny, and I know that any issue will be caught very quickly.
I use credit cards for everyday purchases because of the points I get (then I pay the credit cards off in full every month, otherwise those points wouldn't be worth it!). I've had the same card number stolen twice, once after an online purchase at a major retailer, the other time after I was in New Orleans at a conference and used the card at a restaurant. The first one I caught within a day, the second the card issuer (Capital One) caught before the charge went through. It IS a pain to have to change auto-payments after getting a new card, but I am glad to have the fraudulent charges caught and fixed so quickly (no cost to me at all).
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00
My boyfriend. It actually really opened my eyes to how little he knew about finances (aged out of the foster care system and never had anyone to learn from). He left his debit card at a laundromat and someone used it to buy a club a round of drinks. And then another. And then another. He had his checking account linked to his savings, and they got EVERYTHING. My boyfriend had a few big upcoming, planned expenses that he had money in the bank for as well as a little savings and money in his checking account for all of his normal expenses. Funny thing is, he's not once set foot in a club.
The bank took almost a full month to return half the money. At that point, all of his bills had bounced (incurring hundreds of dollars in fees) and a whole series of unfortunate events caused by not having any money whatsoever. He did not have a credit card at the time because of credit problems in the past. The bank has yet to refund the rest of the money because he did not report it stolen until a few days after it went missing. It's unclear if he will ever get the rest, and certainly will not get any kind of compensation for the financial hell this has put him through for the last 6 months (I tell him it's his stupid tax :P). He's only now gotten himself out of the red for the first time, and that's by taking a 2nd job and working 70 hour weeks. Our relationship has taken a huge hit.
On paper, he looked like a financial mess. I can see a bank, looking at his < 3K savings account and spotty credit history, not taking his story seriously. By the time he reported it, they were no longer obligated to pay in full.
I am curious how long it took him to report it? I seem to remember that the "rule" was that you had to report it as soon as you noticed, but of course that's not always immediate. What was the bank's time limit?
I don't really know the benefits of using a debit card. its not more convenient than a credit card, someone can pull cash right out of your bank account, you get no cash back/rewards, im not sure what fraud protection they have but I don't perceive them as having much, I also don't know if I have any power to dispute charges; so I don't feel comfortable with using debit and see zero positives.
My debit card was hacked (at a gas station). I discovered it after a check bounced a week or so after they used it to buy 2 one-way plane tickets to Chile, $2300. I called my bank immediately, and they replaced the $2300.00 in my account the next morning. I get that banks don't have the same legal requirements as credit card companies, but does anyone actually have examples of a bank that did not replace the person's money when it was pretty clear that it was used fraudulently? I would think from a business perspective, most if not all of them would make good on it otherwise they'd lose customers.
Had a friend who was sent a new debit card she wasn't expecting. The day it was delivered was the day her set of mailboxes was pried open and mail was stolen from all those units. Her card was taken, cloned, and the numbers sold.
Within days $33,000 was gone from her account from all over the world and finally a check bounced -- which she got notice of four days later. She got all but 3,000 back, because "she didn't report it with in the time limits". They made her report each transaction -- she must have missed that one, or it straggled in under a statement date. She was elderly, and her bank did everything in it's power to make it difficult for her to do so.
You have to understand, while a lot of people are on computers daily, and check often, there is still a large population that don't own computers, and even more who won't transact business on one for fear of theft. So they bank like old timey.... and that takes time...
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
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When reporting a debit card theft/unauthorized use to the bank, a person should always keep a copy of their complaint for their own records. If the bank is dragging its feet, or there are other problems, people should be aware of who it is they can file complaints with .. the OCC covers national banks only. The NCUA covers credit unions. State banking officials cover state banks, and may help with national bank problems.
The OCC is getting lazy in helping people, so imo, I would start complaints with the state banking officials first, then if the problem isn't resolved I'd move on to filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), leaving filing a complaint with the OCC as a last resort. When filing complaints about the bank a person should always include copies of the theft complaint they'd made to the bank.
The theft reporting timeline and how much could be lost ..
Before any unauthorized charges are made ... $0
Within 2 business days after you learn about the loss or theft ... $50
More than 2 business days after you learn about the loss or theft, but less than 60 calendar days after your statement is sent to you ... $500
More than 60 calendar days after your statement is sent to you ... All the money taken from
your ATM/debit card account, and possibly the money that is in accounts which are linked to your debit account.
If you can convince the bank that your notification failure was due to extenuating circumstances, it must extend the notification timeline for a 'reasonable period'.
The banks timeline ..
If the account has been active for more than 30 days, the bank has 10 days. If they need more time they can take up to 45 days. If they take longer than the 10 days then they will credit the all/most of the funds back to your account while they investigate .. but, once their investigation is finalized and they don't support your claim then they can take back the money they had credited to your account.
If the account is less than 30 days old, or you’re disputing POS or foreign transactions, they may take up to 20 days to apply the temporary credit to your account. They can take up to 90 days to investigate.
The bank must notify you in writing if they don't support your claim.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7
That aphorism is incorrect.
All sorts of things are perceived as problems when they never in fact are.
Credit/debit card theft has never, "in fact", been a problem?
I hate to burst your imagined protective bubble, but, in 2012 the losses due to credit/debit card theft were $11.27 billion, with the US accounting for more than 47% of the losses. Since the stats for 2013 haven't been tallied and released yet then there is no telling how much higher the losses were last year.
Quote:
Do you remember the year 2000 computer problem which wasn't?
How can you compare proven facts against something that has never been dealt with before, and, was only a perceived problem? mathjak is correct in saying "Nothing is ever a problem, that is until its a problem".
I am curious how long it took him to report it? I seem to remember that the "rule" was that you had to report it as soon as you noticed, but of course that's not always immediate. What was the bank's time limit?
I went back to look for the thread that I started when this happened and it looked like I flubbed some of the details. My memory is shot! It's actually been almost a year since this all occurred and he got half of the money back fairly quickly.
There seems to be three factors at play in his situation:
1. It took him 3 days to report the card stolen and I believe the bank is only liable for half. He initially told me that he didn't realize that it was missing until the next day and that he reported it the day after that - in reality, he waited over a weekend to report it. When he first mentioned not knowing where the card was, I told him to go to the bank immediately even before the card was used. He actually had already known it was gone for a few days and didn't want to hear "I told you so".
2. The bank believed he was trying to defraud them because he used the card via phone in after he said it was stolen. He has all of his information memorized so he didn't even have to pull out the card. That still struck the bank as suspicious.
3. He didn't let me help him take care of it. He didn't know what to do or how to fight the bank, and felt really embarrassed taking my help. I was willing to go talk to the bank manager with him but he refused, so I only know what has transpired second-hand.
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