[dogcrazy]

Well here in NY every animal is altered before being released from the shelter.Unless it's owner claims it before it goes up for adoption.I think it is great.There are too many homeless unwanted animals that die everyday because there aren't enough homes for them.I know this because my mother works for the shelter,and im there all the time.It's very sad.If people do not want to get their animal altered then they should go to a breeder.And as far as i know, every rescue here also alters all animals before they are adopted out.Theres just too many that die for no reason.I have a lot of dogs for that reason.You fall in love with them all.My house is like noahs ark.I love it though

[Toria]

that's fine as long as there are reasonable exceptions to the rule....such as the recent case of the guy whose dog was lost while he was visiting NYC. The shelter refused to give him his dog back unless they neutered it first; he had to go to court and it cost him $10K to post a bond and retrieve his dog intact. So, pity the poor show person who is driving through NYC and stops and has a dog get loose...even if you show up five minutes later at the shelter, they won't give you the dog back without spaying/neutering it first? Ridiculous....

[dogcrazy]

Thats a little crazy.Like i said here,we have to hold them for 7 days to give the owner a chance to claim them.Cant do anything to them unless they are EXTREMELY ill,because they are not the shelters dog.Theres been dogs that are a giant mat,and they cannot shave them or anything because of that reason.

[Sam I Am]

Incorrect, Toria - someone who is a recognized breeder who is licensed as such can have more than one intact female or male.....only the masses who are breeding for that cute little litter of pups is subject to that notation. Believe me - all the herding dogs and working dogs and service dogs and that cute little litter will continue reproducing. By 2012, hopefully we will not be euthanizing 26 MILLION animals in a 5 year period. At the end of that time, I suppose we will know whether this works or not.....but in the meantime, we've eliminated a whole class of homeless animals by simple spay/neuter.

[Toria]

Originally Posted by Sam I Am

Incorrect, Toria - someone who is a recognized breeder who is licensed as such can have more than one intact female or male.....

where does it say that, please? The following is what I read:

""This bill would, until January 1, 2012, authorize a local
jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency to allow
for issuance of an intact permit for one male and one female dog per household in order to allow the dogs to produce a single litter of offspring, subject to specified criteria."

is there a section I'm not seeing that allows for more?

[ljkbsb]

I have a purebred Weimaraner, but did not plan on breeding him. I had him neutered. I see no reason to add to the animal overpopulation with unwanted puppies.

[DaBears]

we got both of our dogs from the pound & from they told us both times the dogs HAD to be 'fixed' ...(have male & female husky)...BUT hubby had gotten 1st dog from alaska & he was not fixed....

[Sam I Am]

here's the info on permits and exceptions - the entire bill can be read by clicking the link in my previous post, I believe on page 5

Article 3. Permits


122336.2. (a) A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit,
as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if the owner
provides proof acceptable to the local jurisdiction , as
determined by the local jurisdiction or its authorized
local animal control agency, that any of the following conditions are
met:
(1) The owner demonstrates, by providing a copy of his or her
business license and , federal
and state tax number tax identification number,
California seller's permit, as required by Section 6066 of the
Revenue and Taxation Code , or by other proof, as required by
the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency,
that he or she is doing business and , if licensing is
required, is licensed as a breeder at a location for which the
local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency has
issued a breeder license.
(2) The owner's cat or dog is a valid breed that is
recognized by an approved belongs to a recognized
registry or association, and complies with at least one of the
following:
(A) His or her The cat or dog is
used to show or compete and has competed in at least one legitimate
show or sporting competition hosted by, or under the approval of, a
recognized registry or association within the last two years, or by
whatever proof is required by the local jurisdiction or its
authorized local animal control agency demonstrating that
the cat or dog is being trained to show or compete and is too young
to have yet competed.
(B) The cat or dog has earned, or if under three years old, is in
the process of earning, a conformation, obedience, agility, carting,
herding, protection, rally, sporting, working, or other title from
an approved a recognized registry or
association.
(3) The owner is a legitimate breeder of mixed
breed or purebred working dogs, or is supplying mixed breed or
purebred dogs for training as working dogs to law enforcement, fire
agencies, or legitimate professional or volunteer
private sector working dog organizations.
(4) The dog is being actively used by law enforcement, fire
agencies, or legitimate professional or volunteer
private sector working dog organizations for law enforcement, fire
service, search and rescue, or medical service activities, or is
being raised, groomed, socialized, or otherwise prepared for duties
for any of these purposes.
(5) The owner of a cat or dog provides a letter to the local
jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency from a
California licensed veterinarian stating that due to age, poor
health, or illness, it is unsafe to spay or neuter the cat or dog.
The letter from the veterinarian shall include the veterinarian's
license number, the name of the owner, a description of the cat or
dog in question, and, if this information is available, the duration
of the condition of the cat or dog, and the date by which the cat or
dog may be safely spayed or neutered.
(6) The dog is used for herding or guarding livestock, and the dog'
s owner resides on or is the owner of property designated for
agricultural use.
(b) Any cat or dog owner who is not a resident of California shall
be exempted from the permit requirements set forth in this chapter
if the owner provides proof, as determined by the local jurisdiction
or its authorized local animal control agency, that the cat or dog is
temporarily in California for training, showing, or any other
legitimate lawful reason.
(c) (1) Any individual or organization breeding animals for
services provided by guide dogs, signal dogs, or service dogs, as
defined in subparagraph (C) of paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) of
Section 54.1 of the Civil Code, shall be presumptively entitled to an
intact permit issued pursuant to this chapter.
(2) Any animal possessed by any individual with a disability
protected by the federal Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
(Public Law 101-336) shall be exempt from the provisions of this
chapter if the animal is providing guide dog, service dog, or signal
dog services, as defined in subparagraph (C) of paragraph (6) of
subdivision (b) of Section 54.1 of the Civil Code.
(3) Guide dog, signal dog, and service dog programs licensed by
the State of California are exempt from all of the provisions of this
chapter.
(4) A person in possession of a cat or dog to be used for any of
the purposes set forth in permitted by
the federal Animal Welfare Act (7 U.S.C. Sec. 2131 et seq.) shall be
exempt from the provisions of Section 122336.1
this chapter , provided the person is licensed by or
registered with the United States Secretary of Agriculture pursuant
to the provisions of the Animal Welfare Act.
(d) An unaltered cat or dog for which an intact permit was issued
who ceases to meet the requirements of subdivision (a) is subject to
the spay and neuter requirements set forth in Section 122336.1.
(e) (1) The amount of the fee for an intact permit shall be
determined by the local jurisdiction, and shall be no more than what
is reasonably necessary to fund the administration of that
jurisdiction's intact permit program.
(2) A local jurisdiction shall waive the intact permit fee for an
unaltered cat or dog that meets any of the requirements described in
paragraphs (3) and (4) of subdivision (a), and the provisions of
subdivision (c) and may waive all or part of the intact permit fee
for an unaltered cat or dog meeting the requirements of paragraph (5)
of subdivision (a).
(3) Any fee assessed by a local jurisdiction pursuant to this
chapter shall not be duplicative of any other local fee in that
jurisdiction.
(f) Nothing in this section shall prohibit a local jurisdiction
from adopting or enforcing a more restrictive spay or neuter program
pursuant to Section 122331, provided that the program allows for a
cat or dog to be temporarily or permanently exempted from a spay or
neuter requirement for the reasons set forth in paragraphs (3) to
(5), inclusive, of subdivision (a), or the provisions of subdivision
(c).
122336.21. (a) The local jurisdiction or its authorized local
animal control agency may allow for issuance of an intact permit, and
imposition of an intact permit fee, for one male and one female dog
per household in order to allow the dogs to produce a single litter
of offspring. In no event shall the intact permits issued for this
purpose have a duration in excess of one year. In addition, the
following conditions shall be met for purposes of obtaining and
retaining the permit:
(1) The animal dog has been examined
by a licensed veterinarian and is following the preventative health
care program recommended by the veterinarian.
(2) The owner has not been convicted of one or more violations of
the following offenses:
(A) Section 121705 of the Health and Safety Code.
(B) Section 286.5 of the Penal Code.
(C) Section 596 of the Penal Code.
(D) Section 597 of the Penal Code.
(E) Section 597.5 of the Penal Code.
(F) Section 599aa of the Penal Code.
(G) Section 487e of the Penal Code.
(H) Section 487f of the Penal Code.
(I) Section 487g of the Penal Code.
(3) The owner has not been convicted of two or more violations of
any local ordinance involving the dog for whom the unaltered animal
certification is sought.
(4) The owner has not received an order from the local
jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency involving
the dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought.
(5) The dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought
has not been determined by local jurisdiction or its authorized local
animal control agency to be a "vicious animal."
(6) The animal dog is properly
housed and cared for as follows:
(A) The animal dog is provided
sufficient quantity of good and wholesome food and water.
(B) The animal dog is provided
shelter that will allow the animal dog
to stand up, turn around, and lie down without lying in its feces,
and the area where the animal dog is
kept is properly cleaned and disinfected.
(C) The animal dog is fully
contained on the owner's property and provided appropriate exercise.
(D) The animal dog owner otherwise
complies with any applicable state law concerning the care and
housing of animals.
(7) The owner furnishes the director of animal control services
with a signed statement agreeing to the following conditions:
(A) Offspring of the unaltered animal dog
may not be sold and may be adopted without a fee only
after adopted or sold before they reach eight
weeks of age.
(B) Records will be kept documenting how many offspring were
produced and who adopted them.
(B) Prior to any adoption or sale, any offspring of the unaltered
dog shall undergo a health examination by a California licensed
veterinarian, and shall receive any preventative health care that is
deemed necessary by the veterinarian.
(C) Any advertisement for the adoption or sale of the offspring of
the unaltered dog shall prominently display the unaltered dog's
intact permit number.
(D) Any adoption or sale of the offspring of the unaltered dog
shall comply with all of the requirements and duties of a breeder, as
set forth in Article 1 (commencing with Section 122045) of Chapter
5.
(8) The dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought
is currently licensed pursuant to local requirements.
(9) The owner has considered having the animal microchipped for
purposes of identification.
(b) The owner shall maintain records documenting how many
offspring were produced or adopted, or both
and by whom they were adopted or purchased, if applicable , and
shall provide proof that the dog has been spayed or neutered after
producing not more than a a single litter. This
information shall be made available to an the
local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal
control agency upon request.
(c) The amount of the fee for an intact permit issued under this
section shall be determined by the local jurisdiction and shall not
exceed the cost of administering this section.

[Toria]

thank you, but I read through it the first time you posted the link, and I still do not see where it says that permits for multiple dogs of each sex can/will be issued. If you do, please show me exactly where it says that.

[Sam I Am]

Originally Posted by Toria

thank you, but I read through it the first time you posted the link, and I still do not see where it says that permits for multiple dogs of each sex can/will be issued. If you do, please show me exactly where it says that.

You're getting tripped up by focusing on one or two dog homes...that's what they are trying to stop.

Intact permits are given for legitimate breeders who declare themselves as such. #1 plainly states that.

#2 applies to dogs competing, specifically in the ring, where they MUST be intact.

#3 legitimate breeders of even mixed dogs for therapy dogs, working dogs, etc.

You can produce "A" litter. If you keep one of those pups, you can apply for an intact permit to produce another litter.....the rest of the litter has to be accounted for.

I don't understand why anyone other than people who are breeding for a hobby would have an issue with the law as stated...and hobbyists and people that allow their dogs to roam are the problem, not legit breeders. As I stated before, commercial breeders and puppy mills are two entirely separate things and the public is confusing the two. If you want a pet, you can by all means buy through a commercial breeder but the pet will be spayed or neutered. So what? If you're buying as a pet, why would you want the health and headache risks of an intact dog?

Of course PETA could come back in 5 years and want to re-do this law....and again, they are a lobbying body, not a governing body....your power lies within your local and state jurisdiction and lawmakers. PETA may be supporting this, but they aren't the final say - pet owners are. Again, I don't get it - if you are a responsible pet owner you want to do what is best for your pet, and S/N is what is best for your dog and the entire animal population. If we could rely on people to be responsible, this hooplah wouldn't have gotten started in the first place - and there is your government "interference" at work.
#6 livestock dogs