This might be a can of worms...but racial tension?? (Philadelphia: loans, new house)

[Tiger Beer]

Just reading some of the posts. This might be a can of worms....but it sounds like Philadelphia has had a lot of racial tension in the past?

I read some stories about the Italians and Blacks chasing each other out of each other's neighborhoods with baseball bats.

Read another about Irish who were quite protective of who comes into their neighborhood.

THe bigger theme is that a lot of white flight as well....and the city just having a much lower class of people all the way around.

Are there quite a places where blacks don't want to go....or whites don't want to go? Still racial tension being played out? How do people deal with that on the trains and such...or is simply a we live here, you live there....everything and everywhere else is fine thing?

Just seeing to what extent things are the way they are...etc.

[Marius Pontmercy]

Racism is Philadelphia has more levels of subtly than that. We're all racist in the sense that we have preconceived perceptions of other groups of human beings. Basically, we stereotype, we all do it, its a natural human thing. We've developed stereotypes because we couldn't keep track of the description of every person we met individually, so we form stereotypes that let us identify possible danger or help faster. You probably have a stereotyped image of what a thug looks like, or a businessman. But for all you know if you needed help on the street the thug might help you and the businessman might just walk by, appearances aren't necessarily everything.

That aside, do we have really negative stereotypes in Philadelphia? Do we act maliciously or sometimes violently on them? It happens, see South Philadelphia High School. It's disturbing that some people bring it to that level, but that's a product of hyper-insularism and ignorance, which is what makes parts of this city so gut-wrenchingly sad. I can't deny that those incidents haven't occurred, so there it is. I think there's two big differences though when it comes to everyday stereotypes we form in the city. Between ethnic groups living here, there's usually at least the agreement that we can tolerate each other whatever our differences. A city is like that, you have to at least tolerate other people. Usually people get along fine though, they're exposed to different groups of people and they learn to accept them. However, there's a stereotype attached to the extreme poverty of the city, and it goes along with white flight. What most people don't realize is how artificial the divide really is, and thats really just sad because then it leads many people to form negative stereotypes. Really, when the government subsidized the building of the suburbs starting in the 50s and 60s, many middle class whites chose to stay in the city rather than leave. However, the practice of redlining city neighborhoods as "high risk" so as not to receive loans for new houses or home-improvements, and this happened especially in black neighborhoods, caused an increased level of tension over an already tense period during the Civil Rights Movement. Once the Columbia Ave. race riots were sparked, and those middle class whites living in the city saw that they could get a loan for a new house in the suburbs, but not a different neighborhood in the city, most made the choice to leave. I think the government's policies in this era had a big effect on how we view race in the city now, since it really split us geographically. Had the city remained more mixed and middle class, our views would be a lot different.

You know there's always going to be some racist; some sad individual who falls back on race to define themselves and to explain his troubles, because you'll always have sad individuals. I think what we need to do is start seeing with our own two eyes again, because we're all human, we're all shaped by our environments, and we all have a lot more in common than we like to think.

[rotodome]

Speaking for myself, growing up in Philly in the 70's & 80's, there were definitely Philly neighborhoods where I, as a brown person, was actively not welcomed. I was chased, called names, had things thrown at me, etc.
Some of those have gone on to become very trendy and much more tolerant areas today - score +1 for gentrification.
I still love the city, and will be moving back soon.

[rotodome]

To answer the OP question though, I think things have largely changed for the better. A combination of a generational shift, cultural shift, economic shift, who knows?

It should also be said that as a counterpoint to really segregated areas of the city, there are other neighborhoods, most notably in the northwest part of the city (Oak Lane, Mount Airy, West Germantown, and even Chestnut Hill), which quietly for a long time have been stable as some of the most integrated neighborhoods in any big city in America.

[john_starks]

its a tough town. if you can make it here you can make it anywhere

except the south lol

[dorado0359]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Just reading some of the posts. This might be a can of worms....but it sounds like Philadelphia has had a lot of racial tension in the past?

I read some stories about the Italians and Blacks chasing each other out of each other's neighborhoods with baseball bats.

Read another about Irish who were quite protective of who comes into their neighborhood.

THe bigger theme is that a lot of white flight as well....and the city just having a much lower class of people all the way around.

Are there quite a places where blacks don't want to go....or whites don't want to go? Still racial tension being played out? How do people deal with that on the trains and such...or is simply a we live here, you live there....everything and everywhere else is fine thing?

Just seeing to what extent things are the way they are...etc.

You are correct. During the 70's Philly was one of the most racist, hateful cities in America.

Don't believe this holds today, but during the 70's blacks could not step foot in Italian sections of South Philly, without being brutally beaten to a pulp with baseball bats. Also, some parts of Southwest Philly close to the Airport was the same way. I believe that section of the city was Irish, and they would brutalize blacks with bats also. Yes, this was quite the norm in Philly.

Much of the racial hatred and tension duirng that time funnelled down from Rizzo, who was Mayor of Philly during that horrific time period.

[Marius Pontmercy]

Racism is a two way street. You give, you get.

[Shizzles]

Philadelphia is a mixed bag in some ways. On one hand, there is alot of BM/WW couples around (and a healthy amount of WM/BW too), yet at the same time, there is definetly some old-school hate out in the snooty suburbs.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

Philadelphia is a mixed bag in some ways. On one hand, there is alot of BM/WW couples around (and a healthy amount of WM/BW too), yet at the same time, there is definetly some old-school hate out in the snooty suburbs.

And throughout the city as well. Fishtown, Port Richmond, Bridesburg and the Northeast all are still mired in racism. I would attribute it to more the older population, though I have seen some from younger people as well. Though no more from them than anywhere else I've lived.

[frankgn87]

you are dead on...

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Just reading some of the posts. This might be a can of worms....but it sounds like Philadelphia has had a lot of racial tension in the past?

I read some stories about the Italians and Blacks chasing each other out of each other's neighborhoods with baseball bats.

Read another about Irish who were quite protective of who comes into their neighborhood.

THe bigger theme is that a lot of white flight as well....and the city just having a much lower class of people all the way around.

Are there quite a places where blacks don't want to go....or whites don't want to go? Still racial tension being played out? How do people deal with that on the trains and such...or is simply a we live here, you live there....everything and everywhere else is fine thing?

Just seeing to what extent things are the way they are...etc.