Philadelphia 2035 (Girard: pass, process, passenger)

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

I meant that every four blocks there would be a BRT lane running perpendicular. For example, Front, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, etc. would all have BRT running back/forth for the length of the route. In fact, that would require both lanes to be BRT only with one travel lane and no parking lanes. Regardless of the details, it could be figured out and achieved. At the very least, this is needed in CC. How long does this city plan to allow buses to be trapped back-to-back at 12th and Market with traffic? Our small rail rapid transit network could be so much better if we ran true to form BRT.

I like your thinking here. That idea could be truly transformative as far as improving the quality of transit service in Philadelphia is concerned. You'd also need to implement BRT on some of the east-west streets - a few of which (Oregon Avenue, Snyder Avenue, Washington Avenue, Spring Garden Street, Cecil B. Moore Avenue, Lehigh Avenue...) could easily be reconfigured for bidirectional BRT and mixed traffic. (Actually, strike Washington Avenue from that list west of Broad - it retains light industrial uses that do require parking along that stretch.)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

Lol.

Something is in the air. Here's an extremely well-crafted op-ed in today's Inky calling for an end to median parking on S Broad: Median parking on South Broad Street is dangerous and must end | Opinion

Honestly, I would not hold my breath about this.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I like your thinking here. That idea could be truly transformative as far as improving the quality of transit service in Philadelphia is concerned. You'd also need to implement BRT on some of the east-west streets - a few of which (Oregon Avenue, Snyder Avenue, Washington Avenue, Spring Garden Street, Cecil B. Moore Avenue, Lehigh Avenue...) could easily be reconfigured for bidirectional BRT and mixed traffic. (Actually, strike Washington Avenue from that list west of Broad - it retains light industrial uses that do require parking along that stretch.)

Excellent point! +1

Washington, Oregon, Spring Garden, Girard, etc. These streets would be even easier to retrofit, reasonable in cost to construct (comparatively), and could connect to BSL stations for easy transfers. Imagine if you structured transfer stations where people could un-board behind gates and transfer/go right down to the BSL platform.

You'd have so many benefits. Real transit solutions for everyone (vs fancy upgrades for rich neighborhoods), and spurring investment along these corridors because, if done properly, protected BRT lanes with synchronization with lights is a more permanent installation.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I like your thinking here. That idea could be truly transformative as far as improving the quality of transit service in Philadelphia is concerned. You'd also need to implement BRT on some of the east-west streets - a few of which (Oregon Avenue, Snyder Avenue, Washington Avenue, Spring Garden Street, Cecil B. Moore Avenue, Lehigh Avenue...) could easily be reconfigured for bidirectional BRT and mixed traffic. (Actually, strike Washington Avenue from that list west of Broad - it retains light industrial uses that do require parking along that stretch.)

though I would argue the area west of Broad on Washington should be re-zoned and developed with mid level residential. The industrial could easily be moved elsewhere.


BRT on Washington could loop to Delaware aver and also over to U City and 30th street potentially around to the Pennsy cut through the parkway and art museum


much of the row already exists and could use 31st street underground and through the railyard for more dedicated row


also 25th street could link with the Navy yard (even come back to grab the BSL stop at the stadiums instead of extended HR) and even the airport

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Excellent point! +1

Washington, Oregon, Spring Garden, Girard, etc. These streets would be even easier to retrofit, reasonable in cost to construct (comparatively), and could connect to BSL stations for easy transfers. Imagine if you structured transfer stations where people could un-board behind gates and transfer/go right down to the BSL platform.

You'd have so many benefits. Real transit solutions for everyone (vs fancy upgrades for rich neighborhoods), and spurring investment along these corridors because, if done properly, protected BRT lanes with synchronization with lights is a more permanent installation.

Speaking of Spring Garden it's being re-surfaced and I'm a little concerned about whether the bike lanes will return.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Excellent point! +1

Washington, Oregon, Spring Garden, Girard, etc. These streets would be even easier to retrofit, reasonable in cost to construct (comparatively), and could connect to BSL stations for easy transfers. Imagine if you structured transfer stations where people could un-board behind gates and transfer/go right down to the BSL platform.

You'd have so many benefits. Real transit solutions for everyone (vs fancy upgrades for rich neighborhoods), and spurring investment along these corridors because, if done properly, protected BRT lanes with synchronization with lights is a more permanent installation.

I left Girard off that list deliberately, as it already has the basics in place for LRT where the street is wide enough. Where it isn't, in order to add the in-street islands, you'd need to remove the parking lanes between Broad Street and Fairmount Park (as well as between Lancaster Avenue and 63d Street and along the entire Richmond Street segment of the route).

Reconfiguring the Girard stations on the BSL and MFL so that they function like similar transfer stations in Toronto would take a little extra work and probably a lot more cash. Ditto the others: Cecil B. Moore, North Philadelphia, Snyder, Oregon, Erie, Erie-Torresdale, Berks. Running the BRT in the curb lanes, however, makes the problem disappear more or less at most of these stations, especially with the advent of SEPTA Key. The problem would remain at the Girard stops because the rails are in the center of the street.

Making the problem disappear at Broad and Washington is a physical impossibility unless you want to either spend a ton of money to uproot Ellsworth-Federal station and move it a block north or return the Route 64 bus to its original routing along Ellsworth and Federal streets - or turn one of those two streets into a bidirectional BRT street (which would avoid uprooting the contractors' supply/home improvement/etc. businesses on the west side of Broad as well).

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I left Girard off that list deliberately, as it already has the basics in place for LRT where the street is wide enough. Where it isn't, in order to add the in-street islands, you'd need to remove the parking lanes between Broad Street and Fairmount Park (as well as between Lancaster Avenue and 63d Street and along the entire Richmond Street segment of the route).

Reconfiguring the Girard stations on the BSL and MFL so that they function like similar transfer stations in Toronto would take a little extra work and probably a lot more cash. Ditto the others: Cecil B. Moore, North Philadelphia, Snyder, Oregon, Erie, Erie-Torresdale, Berks. Running the BRT in the curb lanes, however, makes the problem disappear more or less at most of these stations, especially with the advent of SEPTA Key. The problem would remain at the Girard stops because the rails are in the center of the street.

Making the problem disappear at Broad and Washington is a physical impossibility unless you want to either spend a ton of money to uproot Ellsworth-Federal station and move it a block north or return the Route 64 bus to its original routing along Ellsworth and Federal streets - or turn one of those two streets into a bidirectional BRT street (which would avoid uprooting the contractors' supply/home improvement/etc. businesses on the west side of Broad as well).

I wonder what the cost would be to have a BRT submerge from 13th (or even 13.5 and 14.5) to 15th with an underground connection to the BSL


that said if people cant walk one block for a connection their loss also the Washington could link up with other HR in U City or 30th


also I wonder if Myomessing would be another good option for BRT - could link to DE ave on one end and the stadiums on the other for HR connections

[eliza61nyc]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Speaking of Spring Garden it's being re-surfaced and I'm a little concerned about whether the bike lanes will return.

I heard they will return. I got this from my HOA president so not sure how accurate he is.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

I wonder what the cost would be to have a BRT submerge from 13th (or even 13.5 and 14.5) to 15th with an underground connection to the BSL


that said if people cant walk one block for a connection their loss also the Washington could link up with other HR in U City or 30th


also I wonder if Myomessing would be another good option for BRT - could link to DE ave on one end and the stadiums on the other for HR connections

The vertical clearance between the surface and the subway tracks at Broad and Girard is not great enough to run the tracks at the level of the station mezzanine - they'd have to tunnel beneath the tracks, requiring a longer and steeper incline at either end.

The point is not whether riders can walk a block - they can and do today. The point is that a "seamless" rapid transit experience bus/rail means that the "transfer stations" are within the fare paid zone, just as the platforms are at 15th/City Hall (but not 8th/Market). True BRT involves off-board fare collection just like its rail cousin has. Thus, you'd want to have the paid BRT platform and the paid area in the subway station connect directly without having to exit one and enter the other.

Moyamensing Avenue is definitely wide enough to support BRT, though there is that one-block interruption at Snyder Avenue to negotiate. The MFL connection would have to be at 2d and Market; see above for the reason why.

[kidphilly]

^^ meant at Broad and Wash not Broad and Girard