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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp
Your entire post is grossly exaggerated. When did I ever mention or hint at bulldozing Society Hill or other historic neighborhoods/structures. I love Philadelphia's history and unique architecture, but I also love progress and development, I shake my head at some of gorgeous structures that have been lost for parking lots or poorly designed buildings.
I have been following this project and I have weighed the pros and cons of it, and I support it, because the positives outweigh the negatives. I did not support the Boyd being torn down, I did not support the historic mansion at Penn being torn down, I did not support the demo (did not happen) of the rowhomes along Lancaster Ave near Drexel.
And now that the fate for those buildings of Jewelers Row is essentially sealed, why not go for a grand replacement. I would feel even worse about losing great buildings and replacing them with crap (former please touch museum), but you seem content with that.
I would love for Philadelphia to follow in NYCs footsteps, it will never be/nor do I want it to be a clone of NYC, but Philadelphia should definitely take notes on how NYC has evolved.
I am a forward thinking, I like growth, progress and height and prestige, things that Philadelphia can easily strive for, but some of the residents (like you) are so ho-hum about any type of change or progression, its quite disappointing.
You even stated earlier that you be against this project even if it weren't on Jewelers Row, because it would be "out of scale" for the area which is bogus. If you were in charge of planning we would have vacant lots and parking lots, nothing built more than 3 stories tall, every building over 50' would be torn down, and only "mom n pop shops" could open.
Whats wrong with upscale shopping. I wouldn't have a hissy fit, I would just go to KoP
Look at the skyline from the river. It steps up in height. You see depth of field. If you don't understand that, just say so.
You obviously don't give a rat's patoot that Jewelers Row has long been a tight-knit community. It's provided security for businesses that might have millions of dollars worth of merchandise in any given store. You don't care. You think that lively is better. It will destroy Jewelers Row. Do you think that every city has a jewelers row? You would be sadly mistaken if you think that. What makes a city world class? A historic jewelers row or a bunch of apartments towers? Here's a hint: world class cities have amenities that are out of the norm.
I never said that there should be vacant lots all over the city or that everything should be colonial. You, however, want height, no matter where, & upscale shopping everywhere, regular people, & people with kids be damned.
I love the murals. It was a brilliant concept to fix the graffiti problem that grew.
Edmund Bacon had some brilliant ideas & some that were wretched. Oddly enough, they frequently were in conflict. I've often wondered why the early Philadelphia Tourism add that had Kevin Bacon on a skateboard has never resurfaced.
Philadelphia Green sprang from people turning land that had formerly had buildings into community gardens. I wondered if gentrification is eliminating those gardens in the areas that are being gentrified.
I wish that more people would look at Philadelphia for what it is & not compare it, longingly, to NYC. Other cities & towns have taken Philadelphia ideas & made them their own, like the murals.
I like most of the murals and I love Jane Golden who is still running it.
Most Millenials, who are a major focus now regarding advertising, probably have no idea who Kevin Bacon is. (Many of them don't know who, just deceased, John Glenn was either.)
The comparisons/influences between Phila. and NYC will continue because there's a lot of going back and forth between the two. I see NY license plates all the time, for instance. Comcast, for one, probably has something to do with it. Plus people who move to Philly are doing so because they can not afford to live in NY.
But I don't think our "Philadelphia character" is in danger.
But the cities with the most impressive skylines are anything but plain, vanilla, anywhere USA. Chicago, NYC, San Fran, Philadelphia. We will never have a NYC or Chicago skyline, but I think the addition of tall buildings is going to ruin the city, if anything it will make it more attractive.
I love the integration of modern and historic, but you (to me) put out this idea that Philadelphia should go back in time, have no tall buildings and only colonial structures. That logic may work in say West Chester or Media, but not in a giant city like Philadelphia. You cannot have a world class city if you want to freeze us in time, but you don't want Philadelphia to be world class, to each his own I guess.
For one thing I see this as a generational discussion because it's hard for you to view Philadelphia as it was because you were not around to see it.
How do you define world class? Paris and London had no tall buildings 35 years ago. No one will ever say they were not world class before that time.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
I like most of the murals and I love Jane Golden who is still running it.
Most Millenials, who are a major focus now regarding advertising, probably have no idea who Kevin Bacon is. (Many of them don't know who, just deceased, John Glenn was either.)
The comparisons/influences between Phila. and NYC will continue because there's a lot of going back and forth between the two. I see NY license plates all the time, for instance. Comcast, for one, probably has something to do with it. Plus people who move to Philly are doing so because they can not afford to live in NY.
But I don't think our "Philadelphia character" is in danger.
There are former NYers on this board who are great additions to Philadelphia. I'm concerned by the homegrown millennials who seem to worship NYC.
Like you, I wish that more of the upscale shops were going into Center City, not that I've ever been a big fan of them. On the other hand, I think that they will come, when there's more shopping, overall.
I find it interesting that most cities seem to have their own variation of the Chrysler building, but many cities & towns have adopted murals & this year Charlotte is adopting the Christmas village. They have a zoning problem & used tents. They have been announcing that they're going to work on that, but to bear with them & it won't look like Munich or Philadelphia this year.
Yes, even up & coming cities look up to Philadelphia.
In my opinion, you want to turn Philadelphia into a NYC clone.
I want to see respect for history. European cities use what's old & make them new again. It's a good idea that gave the city Society Hill. I think that you'd be just as happy to bulldoze it & build towers there.
Jewelers Row is a good example. It's not in your lifestyle, so you don't care. When you look at the city from the river, you see a height increase that gives a depth of field. You get a sense of the size of the area.
You'd rather see all upscale shops in Center City. Most people can't afford them & some who can afford them don't care. You seem to enjoy hammering on businesses with a broadbase appeal. I suspect that you would have had a hissy fit to see retail in Center City, years ago. My God! There was a giant dime store on Chestnut St, near Wanamakers, that people of all incomes shopped in. There used to be a lot of art stores geared to professionals.
On the other hand it sounds like you have no interest in modern, 2016, Philadelphia much at all. Although we are about the same age, and I do honor the past and enjoy learning about it and sometimes remembering it, I don't live in the past. Too many of our generation do live in the past and can not, or refuse to, move past it.
Cpomp does not know much about Wanamakers. He does not know about the FW Woolworth store you are talking about. Why would he? You seem to be angry at a young guy who, if he's lucky, will live deep into this century and, who, rightly, has another vision of life (not just about Philly) but overall.
There are former NYers on this board who are great additions to Philadelphia. I'm concerned by the homegrown millennials who seem to worship NYC.
Like you, I wish that more of the upscale shops were going into Center City, not that I've ever been a big fan of them. On the other hand, I think that they will come, when there's more shopping, overall.
I find it interesting that most cities seem to have their own variation of the Chrysler building, but many cities & towns have adopted murals & this year Charlotte is adopting the Christmas village. They have a zoning problem & used tents. They have been announcing that they're going to work on that, but to bear with them & it won't look like Munich or Philadelphia this year.
Yes, even up & coming cities look up to Philadelphia.
Well, the fact that I actually interact with those young people on a daily basis I don't necessarily get that sense. Most I encounter love it here. They love the scale, slower pace, walkability, pretty adequate public transportation, and general friendliness.
I am a forward thinking, I like growth, progress and height and prestige, things that Philadelphia can easily strive for, but some of the residents (like you) are so ho-hum about any type of change or progression, its quite disappointing.
Southbound lives in Charlotte, NC. Not sure how long it's been since she lived in the Philly area.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
On the other hand it sounds like you have no interest in modern, 2016, Philadelphia much at all. Although we are about the same age, and I do honor the past and enjoy learning about it and sometimes remembering it, I don't live in the past. Too many of our generation do live in the past and can not, or refuse to, move past it.
Cpomp does not know much about Wanamakers. He does not know about the FW Woolworth store you are talking about. Why would he? You seem to be angry at a young guy who, if he's lucky, will live deep into this century and, who, rightly, has another vision of life (not just about Philly) but overall.
I have seen what happens when history isn't respected. That's what happened in Charlotte. Many, many boomer natives regret it. It's being rebuilt as a new, modern city, but it existed as a tiny town during the Revolutionary War.
If there's an empty lot, build on it, but I like the concept of having the new blend with the old, when possible.
Here's what I'd like to see. I researched something horrific that happened in one of my families in the 1880s. It happened in the 1900 block of Montgomery. I found out that the current rowhouses in that neighborhood date to circa 1900. I found out that the original structures were twins, built after the Civil War. House after house is gone now. I'd like to see someone go in & buy up the neighborhood & build new twins. A few of the originals are still there. Build twins & supermarkets & retail. That would be useful.
I get annoyed by a young man who seems to have a classist attitude. You know & I know that when you went into that Woolworths you would see poor people & women in furs mingling in the aisles. Center City was for everyone.
I have seen what happens when history isn't respected. That's what happened in Charlotte. Many, many boomer natives regret it. It's being rebuilt as a new, modern city, but it existed as a tiny town during the Revolutionary War.
If there's an empty lot, build on it, but I like the concept of having the new blend with the old, when possible.
Here's what I'd like to see. I researched something horrific that happened in one of my families in the 1880s. It happened in the 1900 block of Montgomery. I found out that the current rowhouses in that neighborhood date to circa 1900. I found out that the original structures were twins, built after the Civil War. House after house is gone now. I'd like to see someone go in & buy up the neighborhood & build new twins. A few of the originals are still there. Build twins & supermarkets & retail. That would be useful.
I get annoyed by a young man who seems to have a classist attitude. You know & I know that when you went into that Woolworths you would see poor people & women in furs mingling in the aisles. Center City was for everyone.
I will grant you that preservationists in Philadelphia do not have the clout they should meaning some developers don't value certain things.
Center City is still for everyone...well as far as who I see walking around. It's not like, mostly white, Boston. I see a lot of poor-ish Mexicans/Central Americans, working class blacks and white, Asians, guys in suits, families... Parts of the Gallery are still open so 11th and Market is much like it has been for a long time.
I think cpomp just favors a level of sophistication here. I don't disagree with that. Philadelphia is also the poorest of the 10 largest cities. We need fix that problem.
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