Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We got the PSFS bldg the next year, the first MODERN, international style, tower in the world. Art Deco(ESB) was made instantly obsolete. lol
How do you stand going to Europe where few are enamored of tall buildings?
Focus on the pedestrian is why European cities are usually so endearing. Vibrancy without the traffic and pollution, accompanied by art and/or statues/fountains is such an enjoyable environment. I'm not sure what high-rises really bring to a city other than a skyline or view...
Focus on the pedestrian is why European cities are usually so endearing. Vibrancy without the traffic and pollution, accompanied by art and/or statues/fountains is such an enjoyable environment. I'm not sure what high-rises really bring to a city other than a skyline or view...
I've been there a bunch of times and, of course, I agree with you.
Plus it helps to be reminded that London, Paris and Rome are hundreds of years old. Discounting wartime destruction, LOTS of time to get it right.
We got the PSFS bldg the next year, the first MODERN, international style, tower in the world. Art Deco(ESB) was made instantly obsolete. lol
How do you stand going to Europe where few are enamored of tall buildings?
European cities are completely different than American cities, therefore I judge them differently.
And I don't know how it comes off that I am "enamored" by tall buildings... I say every post, that is not my point... This mentality of short vs tall or all or nothing is very special to Philadelphia. I disagree with that logic, that doesn't make me obsessed with height.
I would live in many European cities in a second, none of which have many or any tall buildings,
I don't know that it has to be one or the other. People on this board just seemed disappointed or aggravated when a project is not as tall. The truth is that "it looks cool" is not helping our cities. If we want something to move QOL forward in our cities, we will aim to build out rather than just up, accompanied by more places for people. Tall towers surrounded by streets with traffic is one of the primary reasons why I think USA cities suck.
And just to be clear, the thinking is that money put toward an expensive project to build 40 stories takes up a lot of investment in a small plot. It also doesn't really help street vibrancy (not that that's a problem in Center City at least). I'd rather see much more development like Market East with a pedestrian walk way. And it could be shorter if that means that more investment can happen outward rather than upward.
Aggravated when a project in a prime location has the chance for added height / density / activity and is short changed for whatever reason.
Once again I am not advocating for every new building to be 30+ stories tall, I think the Market East development is perfect, that infill project on Chestnut Street (with the Target) is perfect, the small infill projects in Fitler, great, the tower on Jewelers Row, NO.
But we have all seen so many other instances where a great project (usually taller or denser or mixed use) is scrapped due to push-back because its too dense / tall / busy / out of character with the neighborhood, the result... a parking lot, mediocre shoe box or townhomes, none of which should be the go to choice for Center City.
So many wonderful buildings in Philadelphia have been lost (unlike Europe, minus the war), so we are left with blank slates, which in my mind is a chance for projects to be larger, grander, taller, more attractive and most importantly mixed use, so when I see a prime lot at Broad and Fitzwater developed into townhomes when it should be a 10 story mixed use building (yes, only 10) or a painfully ugly looking building at Broad and Washington get a pass because its short (not very European to me), or a game changing waterfront project chopped in half because for whatever reason 244' is the only acceptable zoning height, its frustrating.
The focus is constantly on low-rise and single family which diminishes the big picture of what Philadelphia should be striving for. (sidenote - Broad and Wash is actually a fine height, and since its an appropriate height, there wasn't much concern about what it looked like, however if it were tall and the best looking tower in the city, it would still be met with opposition just because its tall, see how the logic doesn't work?)
And many many many times I have been an advocate for the pedestrian experience in Philadelphia, how many posts have I made mentioned improving the streetscape and QOL on the street in Philadelphia? There are so many easy fixes and repairs that could make Philadelphia literally feel like Paris, yet it goes ignored by the city and even its own residents...
And then I get a rather ridiculous comment from Karen asking how I manage travelling to Europe... because apparently in her eyes, I want Philadelphia to be like Dubai... Like really? I shouldn't have even responded. I view Philadelphia as a dynamic 21st century city, IT CAN have both historic districts, modern districts, height, density, pedestrian activity, beauty, etc.
Again, its not a one or the other game... I somehow didn't develop that attitude with all the years I lived in the city. Sometimes I think the viewpoint of the city is what holds it back the most, aside from the political issues.
Finally, the particular project I was referring to on the Delaware River is what I was referring to originally, it wasn't meant to be a city wide debate, but if everyone is fine with townhome communities along the Delaware, then fine, I will shut up about it.
I don't need a response back, I am not trying to debate, but those are my views of the city.
Last edited by cpomp; 04-26-2019 at 10:54 AM..
Reason: edited
I'm glad people aren't scared of height anymore, but one could only imagine what the city may have looked like today had the unspoken height rule not been a thing...
I'm glad people aren't scared of height anymore, but one could only imagine what the city may have looked like today had the unspoken height rule not been a thing...
No matter, we'll slowly get there. It might actually be a blessing in disguise as it forces development outward instead of upward. After the last 60 years of decline, Philly certainly needs to reclaim some of the neighborhoods that fell into crime-ridden disrepair. In 10 years, it might very well be that the "good" (I realize this is an arbitrary word, but I consider "good" to mean safe, somewhat gentrified and desirable to current non-city residents) areas extend from Port Richmond/Temple University neighborhoods straight down to Oregon Ave. If height wasn't restricted, I could imagine developers simply staying withing Girard/Snyder boundaries and building high rise after high rise.
No matter, we'll slowly get there. It might actually be a blessing in disguise as it forces development outward instead of upward. After the last 60 years of decline, Philly certainly needs to reclaim some of the neighborhoods that fell into crime-ridden disrepair. In 10 years, it might very well be that the "good" (I realize this is an arbitrary word, but I consider "good" to mean safe, somewhat gentrified and desirable to current non-city residents) areas extend from Port Richmond/Temple University neighborhoods straight down to Oregon Ave. If height wasn't restricted, I could imagine developers simply staying withing Girard/Snyder boundaries and building high rise after high rise.
I hope some of those neighborhoods show signs of rebirth before in time for the beautiful buildings to be saved and fixed up, especially in the Northern parts of Breweytown and Strawberry Mansion. I had my first internship in the badlands area and was in awe at the beautiful row-homes and corner buildings that were all abandoned. About 10 years ago.
And not necessarily, thats why we have zoning, and the demand for buildings of the scale in Philadelphia is smaller.
European cities are completely different than American cities, therefore I judge them differently.
And I don't know how it comes off that I am "enamored" by tall buildings... I say every post, that is not my point... This mentality of short vs tall or all or nothing is very special to Philadelphia. I disagree with that logic, that doesn't make me obsessed with height.
I would live in many European cities in a second, none of which have many or any tall buildings,
It just seems that there are height issues about new buildings for you here in Phila. a lot. Point out where you talk about this or that charming new low rise building. Maybe I missed those.
Aggravated when a project in a prime location has the chance for added height / density / activity and is short changed for whatever reason.
Once again I am not advocating for every new building to be 30+ stories tall, I think the Market East development is perfect, that infill project on Chestnut Street (with the Target) is perfect, the small infill projects in Fitler, great, the tower on Jewelers Row, NO.
But we have all seen so many other instances where a great project (usually taller or denser or mixed use) is scrapped due to push-back because its too dense / tall / busy / out of character with the neighborhood, the result... a parking lot, mediocre shoe box or townhomes, none of which should be the go to choice for Center City.
So many wonderful buildings in Philadelphia have been lost (unlike Europe, minus the war), so we are left with blank slates, which in my mind is a chance for projects to be larger, grander, taller, more attractive and most importantly mixed use, so when I see a prime lot at Broad and Fitzwater developed into townhomes when it should be a 10 story mixed use building (yes, only 10) or a painfully ugly looking building at Broad and Washington get a pass because its short (not very European to me), or a game changing waterfront project chopped in half because for whatever reason 244' is the only acceptable zoning height, its frustrating.
The focus is constantly on low-rise and single family which diminishes the big picture of what Philadelphia should be striving for. (sidenote - Broad and Wash is actually a fine height, and since its an appropriate height, there wasn't much concern about what it looked like, however if it were tall and the best looking tower in the city, it would still be met with opposition just because its tall, see how the logic doesn't work?)
And many many many times I have been an advocate for the pedestrian experience in Philadelphia, how many posts have I made mentioned improving the streetscape and QOL on the street in Philadelphia? There are so many easy fixes and repairs that could make Philadelphia literally feel like Paris, yet it goes ignored by the city and even its own residents...
And then I get a rather ridiculous comment from Karen asking how I manage travelling to Europe... because apparently in her eyes, I want Philadelphia to be like Dubai... Like really? I shouldn't have even responded. I view Philadelphia as a dynamic 21st century city, IT CAN have both historic districts, modern districts, height, density, pedestrian activity, beauty, etc.
Again, its not a one or the other game... I somehow didn't develop that attitude with all the years I lived in the city. Sometimes I think the viewpoint of the city is what holds it back the most, aside from the political issues.
Finally, the particular project I was referring to on the Delaware River is what I was referring to originally, it wasn't meant to be a city wide debate, but if everyone is fine with townhome communities along the Delaware, then fine, I will shut up about it.
I don't need a response back, I am not trying to debate, but those are my views of the city.
I think there is a large gap between 3 story rowhomes (yuck) and high rises. I would think a 10 story apartment building with a nice aesthetic would be a good addition in many cases. The missing link to most development in Philadelphia is that there are rarely decent public spaces to accompany them and connect places in a meaningful way. And height rarely has a monopoly on density, hence cities that have consistent, cohesive built environments with 8 stories, connected by good public spaces and impressive density numbers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It might actually be a blessing in disguise as it forces development outward instead of upward. After the last 60 years of decline, Philly certainly needs to reclaim some of the neighborhoods that fell into crime-ridden disrepair. In 10 years, it might very well be that the "good" (I realize this is an arbitrary word, but I consider "good" to mean safe, somewhat gentrified and desirable to current non-city residents) areas extend from Port Richmond/Temple University neighborhoods straight down to Oregon Ave. If height wasn't restricted, I could imagine developers simply staying withing Girard/Snyder boundaries and building high rise after high rise.
