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Actually, quite a lot has changed for people your age. Had a few more turned out in a handful of states, you might not find yourself facing a judiciary which has the potential to strip away labor rights, so-called entitlement programs that may make a difference in your life if you ever face financial struggle, a woman’s right to choose, and perhaps even the rights of you lgbt friends and family to marry or even be protected from firing. Had a handful more of you voted in 2016, we would likely not have brown-skinned toddlers living in cages separated from their parents. Had a handful more of you voted in 2016, we would have more under-employed people with healthcare rather than having to choose between insulin or baby formula. Had a handful more of you voted in 2016, we’d have fewer laws stripping away the rights of people of color to vote in their local elections. Who knows - we might not have had 22 people in El Paso die by bloodshed this past weekend. Elections have real consequences. Many of these people suffering the consequences of the last election are under 40, like you.
Until people your age vote, 70 year old white men from rural areas with an animus for cities, minorities lgbt people and immigrants will determine the direction, policies and practices of this country. Not voting because one feels personally unimpacted by politics is a completely selfish act by privileged people.
Possibly, but we'd still have just as many issues regardless of who is in office. That's my point and my explanation for why my generation is so jaded. All of the examples you raise above talk about the extremely marginalized on the left. If a left wing Dem was voted in instead of Trump, we'd all be b*tching about out-of-control taxes, excessive social programs that don't work, and soft laws that enable others to exploit our country (i.e. China's theft of proprietary information from U.S. companies that has been going on for decades and only now is being addressed... finally). The middle is getting more and more screwed. For most of us that work hard and are trying to get a head, it's a "pick how you get shafted" exercise. Until a party or candidate appears that is actually going to help the quickly disappearing middle class, it's business as usual for my peers and me.
Possibly, but we'd still have just as many issues regardless of who is in office. That's my point and my explanation for why my generation is so jaded. All of the examples you raise above talk about the extremely marginalized on the left. If a left wing Dem was voted in instead of Trump, we'd all be b*tching about out-of-control taxes, excessive social programs that don't work, and soft laws that enable others to exploit our country (i.e. China's theft of proprietary information from U.S. companies that has been going on for decades and only now is being addressed... finally). The middle is getting more and more screwed. For most of us that work hard and are trying to get a head, it's a "pick how you get shafted" exercise. Until a party or candidate appears that is actually going to help the quickly disappearing middle class, it's business as usual for my peers and me.
You literally did not grasp much of what Pine to Vine said and you proved his very point by this post. He and I are coming from an attacked minorities' POV, something I'm not all sure you even understand since you're not one of those minorities.
You literally did not grasp much of what Pine to Vine said and you proved his very point by this post. He and I are coming from an attacked minorities' POV, something I'm not all sure you even understand since you're not one of those minorities.
No, I grasped his POV, and I understand that you're coming from an "attacked minority" mindset. In fact I stated as much in my post. I'm not exactly sure what your POV has to do with my POV (when I stated they were different POVs). Regardless, you are correct in that I'm not an "attacked minority," and neither are the vast majority of my peers that I reference in my posts. And while I realize injustices occur across the spectrum, no offense but, the concerns my peers and I have are not same sex marriage, illegal immigrant holding cells, etc... We're much more focused on making our mortgage payments, affording child care, trying to retain a dwindling social security program and potentially hoping to retire before we're 90 years old. We're coming from an average middle class POV and want representation as such. We haven't gotten it for years. In fact, we don't even get the option on the ballots. I wish you luck in representing and mobilizing your peer group, but that has little to do with my peer group which is a much much much larger segment of the population and more or less ignored. Thus the feeling of futility when voting.
No, I grasped his POV, and I understand that you're coming from an "attacked minority" mindset. In fact I stated as much in my post. I'm not exactly sure what your POV has to do with my POV (when I stated they were different POVs). Regardless, you are correct in that I'm not an "attacked minority," and neither are the vast majority of my peers that I reference in my posts. And while I realize injustices occur across the spectrum, no offense but, the concerns my peers and I have are not same sex marriage, illegal immigrant holding cells, etc... We're much more focused on making our mortgage payments, affording child care, trying to retain a dwindling social security program and potentially hoping to retire before we're 90 years old. We're coming from an average middle class POV and want representation as such. We haven't gotten it for years. In fact, we don't even get the option on the ballots. I wish you luck in representing and mobilizing your peer group, but that has little to do with my peer group which is a much much much larger segment of the population and more or less ignored. Thus the feeling of futility when voting.
You, and everyone else here, should give this podcast a listen:
Our system is actually designed to promote hyperpartisanship over compromise and consensus-building. The people featured in this episode have some very sensible ideas on how to break up the duopoly.
Our system is actually designed to promote hyperpartisanship over compromise and consensus-building. The people featured in this episode have some very sensible ideas on how to break up the duopoly.
A fascinating episode of a consistently interesting podcast. Listened to it twice. The first time was just after it's original airing and the second was last week. It begins with a discussion of Coke and Pepsi and moves pretty brilliantly to a conversation about "left" and "right" leaning political parties. I definitely second MarketStEl's recommendation.
This is a first-time post from a long-time lurker, so take the following sentences with a grain of salt, if you wish.
Pennsport, I hear you and am sympathetic to your POV. No one likes being (or feeling) ignored--particularly those who are working hard to build a happy and sustainable life for themselves and their children. I'll also note that Pine and Vine and kyb01 (from what i've gathered over time and understand from the "attacked minority" POV) may know something about being ignored too.
Cards on the table: I'm a 33 year old, Black, Gay man who, despite being deeply interested and invested in politics (at all levels), am more than a little skeptical of the idea that voting alone will lead to folk being heard...especially not when our current commander in chief lost the popular vote by millions. Still, it's also true that some folk want us to throw up our hands and bow out of the process. Those folk usually couldn't care less about your mortgage payments, childcare, or social security because they're worried about a majority of their peers (who make enough money and/or are disconnected enough from "on the ground" reality to give half a BSL rat's ass about most of us).
All this to say, same sex marriage, illegal immigration, mortgage payments, affordable childcare, dwindling social security, socioeconomic inequality, and racial injustice need not be mutually exclusive concerns from divergent POVs. We really can (and need to) do better than that.
I really appreciate you all, even when I don't completely agree....and there goes my first impression.
A fascinating episode of a consistently interesting podcast. Listened to it twice. The first time was just after it's original airing and the second was last week. It begins with a discussion of Coke and Pepsi and moves pretty brilliantly to a conversation about "left" and "right" leaning political parties. I definitely second MarketStEl's recommendation.
This is a first-time post from a long-time lurker, so take the following sentences with a grain of salt, if you wish.
Pennsport, I hear you and am sympathetic to your POV. No one likes being (or feeling) ignored--particularly those who are working hard to build a happy and sustainable life for themselves and their children. I'll also note that Pine and Vine and kyb01 (from what i've gathered over time and understand from the "attacked minority" POV) may know something about being ignored too.
Cards on the table: I'm a 33 year old, Black, Gay man who, despite being deeply interested and invested in politics (at all levels), am more than a little skeptical of the idea that voting alone will lead to folk being heard...especially not when our current commander and chief lost the popular vote by millions.Still, it's also true that some folk want us to throw up our hands and bow out of the process. Those folk usually couldn't care less about your mortgage payments, childcare, or social security because they're worried about a majority of their peers (who make enough money and/or are disconnected enough from "on the ground" reality to give half a BSL rat's ass).
All this to say, same sex marriage, illegal immigration, mortgage payments, affordable childcare, dwindling social security, socioeconomic inequality, and racial injustice need not be mutually exclusive concerns from divergent POVs. We really can (and need to) do better than that.
I really appreciate you all, even when I don't completely agree....and there goes my first impression.
For the record, most of my peer group (including myself), couldn't care less about being ignored. What we care about is exploitation without representation. We shoulder tax cuts for the 1% while simultaneously providing financial support for entire "families" on the far left; and soon we'll be responsible, to some degree, for supporting the Boomer generation as this demographic retires and needs more support. If we were left alone and not forced to financially support everyone's political agenda, we'd be thrilled.
Regarding the second section I highlighted above, while aligned agendas would make life easier, the reality is that each group has very different hot-button issues and they won't overlap all that much. And unfortunately, there simply isn't enough funding to go around. My preferred solution is to lop off the extremes on both sides and support the middle more robustly which will ultimately help everyone.
Regardless, my initial posting was in response to why my generation/peer group doesn't vote as religiously as other demographics. My response has been, and continues to be, nothing changes for us and we get screwed every which way. It doesn't matter all that much who is in office for my group.
Last edited by Pennsport; 08-14-2019 at 04:02 PM..
A fascinating episode of a consistently interesting podcast. Listened to it twice. The first time was just after it's original airing and the second was last week. It begins with a discussion of Coke and Pepsi and moves pretty brilliantly to a conversation about "left" and "right" leaning political parties. I definitely second MarketStEl's recommendation.
This is a first-time post from a long-time lurker, so take the following sentences with a grain of salt, if you wish.
Pennsport, I hear you and am sympathetic to your POV. No one likes being (or feeling) ignored--particularly those who are working hard to build a happy and sustainable life for themselves and their children. I'll also note that Pine and Vine and kyb01 (from what i've gathered over time and understand from the "attacked minority" POV) may know something about being ignored too.
Cards on the table: I'm a 33 year old, Black, Gay man who, despite being deeply interested and invested in politics (at all levels), am more than a little skeptical of the idea that voting alone will lead to folk being heard...especially not when our current commander in chief lost the popular vote by millions. Still, it's also true that some folk want us to throw up our hands and bow out of the process. Those folk usually couldn't care less about your mortgage payments, childcare, or social security because they're worried about a majority of their peers (who make enough money and/or are disconnected enough from "on the ground" reality to give half a BSL rat's ass about most of us).
All this to say, same sex marriage, illegal immigration, mortgage payments, affordable childcare, dwindling social security, socioeconomic inequality, and racial injustice need not be mutually exclusive concerns from divergent POVs. We really can (and need to) do better than that.
I really appreciate you all, even when I don't completely agree....and there goes my first impression.
I should have started that post with "welcome to the community Warmclay." Glad to have you posting .
A fascinating episode of a consistently interesting podcast. Listened to it twice. The first time was just after it's original airing and the second was last week. It begins with a discussion of Coke and Pepsi and moves pretty brilliantly to a conversation about "left" and "right" leaning political parties. I definitely second MarketStEl's recommendation.
This is a first-time post from a long-time lurker, so take the following sentences with a grain of salt, if you wish.
Pennsport, I hear you and am sympathetic to your POV. No one likes being (or feeling) ignored--particularly those who are working hard to build a happy and sustainable life for themselves and their children. I'll also note that Pine and Vine and kyb01 (from what i've gathered over time and understand from the "attacked minority" POV) may know something about being ignored too.
Cards on the table: I'm a 33 year old, Black, Gay man who, despite being deeply interested and invested in politics (at all levels), am more than a little skeptical of the idea that voting alone will lead to folk being heard...especially not when our current commander in chief lost the popular vote by millions. Still, it's also true that some folk want us to throw up our hands and bow out of the process. Those folk usually couldn't care less about your mortgage payments, childcare, or social security because they're worried about a majority of their peers (who make enough money and/or are disconnected enough from "on the ground" reality to give half a BSL rat's ass about most of us).
All this to say, same sex marriage, illegal immigration, mortgage payments, affordable childcare, dwindling social security, socioeconomic inequality, and racial injustice need not be mutually exclusive concerns from divergent POVs. We really can (and need to) do better than that.
I really appreciate you all, even when I don't completely agree....and there goes my first impression.
Welcome to the discussion, and congratulations on delurking!
Sounds like you and Pennsport are actually singing from either the same page in the songbook or adjacent pages. The principal difference between you and me is: I'm 60 - I'm one of those Boomers you all worry about having to support in our sunset years.
I don't intend to join those ranks while I still have a functioning brain and fingers that can type - and dictation software may be able to take care of the typing for me should my fingers go. The ability to write well doesn't diminish with age unless one's brain does, and I know of many writers and journalists who keep on going after they're supposed to retire and spend their golden years On Golden Pond. One of them, a columnist for The Kansas City Star when I was a copy boy and intern there during and right after high school, died in November 2016 at age 93 - one month after penning his last column for the paper.
It's my intention to exit this orb the way Charles Gusewelle did.
But, of course, if too many of my fellow Boomers harbor similar sentiments, it creates another problem for your generation: We then won't get out of the way so our jobs open up for you all to fill.
I guess Pennsport is right here.
Oh, and: congratulations to you both for knowing the proper construction of "couldn't care less."
Possibly, but we'd still have just as many issues regardless of who is in office. That's my point and my explanation for why my generation is so jaded. All of the examples you raise above talk about the extremely marginalized on the left. If a left wing Dem was voted in instead of Trump, we'd all be b*tching about out-of-control taxes, excessive social programs that don't work, and soft laws that enable others to exploit our country (i.e. China's theft of proprietary information from U.S. companies that has been going on for decades and only now is being addressed... finally). The middle is getting more and more screwed. For most of us that work hard and are trying to get a head, it's a "pick how you get shafted" exercise. Until a party or candidate appears that is actually going to help the quickly disappearing middle class, it's business as usual for my peers and me.
I don’t buy your simplistic and faulty logic that one can either pay high taxes or separate brown toddlers from their parents and place them in cages. Your post reveals an arrogance, privilege and lack of empathy that is exceeded only by its self-centeredness and naivety. Although you refer to your peers, I am impressed with the intelligence and commitment of those under 40 I know who sound nothing like you. I am happy to see the world finally being turned over to them. I think it will be in good hands.
No one will care about your personal problems, however, because you don’t care about theirs. If you are serious about fixing them, then that’s on you. Every generation has had to fight - hard - for a fair shake in life. And continue fighting to hold onto their gains. It won’t be handed you on a silver platter.
I don’t buy your simplistic and faulty logic that one can either pay high taxes or separate brown toddlers from their parents and place them in cages. Your post reveals an arrogance, privilege and lack of empathy that is exceeded only by its self-centeredness and naivety. Although you refer to your peers, I am impressed with the intelligence and commitment of those under 40 I know who sound nothing like you. I am happy to see the world finally being turned over to them. I think it will be in good hands.
No one will care about your personal problems, however, because you don’t care about theirs. If you are serious about fixing them, than that’s on you. Every generation has had to fight - hard - for a fair shake in life. And continue fighting to hold onto their gains. It won’t be handed you on a silver platter.
Well, your passion to the plight of children of illegal migrants is obvious, so I have no doubt you've sacrificed much to help these folks. I'm sure you've made the trip to the border to protest and I have no doubt you have donated thousands of dollars to the cause. I haven't had the time to make the trip in person as I'm sure you've done multiple times now.
Unfortunately, while most of my peers and I are pro same sex marriage, pro choice, against humanitarian abuse, these issues simply do not raise to the level of concerns of issues that directly impact our immediate family and lives on a daily basis. You can discount this fact or accept it. I personally don't care, but it is a fact. Oh, and I never asked for you or anyone else to care about my personal problems. I certainly don't care about your personal problems. I was simply explaining why my peer group has a low voting percentage.
Last edited by Pennsport; 08-15-2019 at 10:25 AM..
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