Philadelphia 2035 (Parker, Clark, Fairfield: places to live, paneling, comparisons)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan95

I think it's a matter of practicality for the city to have a fire station there. If we want to put out fires quickly, I Imagine it's a good idea to have a fire station on the largest east-west street through Center City. I'm sure there's some sort of requirement to have a station within a certain area, and perhaps other lots were not practical to relocate to.

Adding...

It's the only one in that part of CC with Rittenhouse being a huge part of the area along with many important business bldgs. Would folks really want to wait for the Chinatown and Old City stations to respond?

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Adding...

It's the only one in that part of CC with Rittenhouse being a huge part of the area along with many important business bldgs. Would folks really want to wait for the Chinatown and Old City stations to respond?

yes the location is good I presume but there are others, like the one at Broad and Fitz

[MarketStEl]

Regarding utility lines and poles, steeps:

You should have noticed by now that there are no overhead utility lines anywhere in the centers of most North American cities.

That's because all the utilities - electric, telephone, CATV ("community antenna television," or cable) - run in buried conduits.

Besides being much more attractive, buried utility lines also are much less prone to service disruption due to weather.

But burying the lines is also much more expensive than suspending them from poles, so it's only in the most densely developed areas that all the utilities are buried - and then, as here, even many densely built areas may still have overhead utilities, either in back alleys (as you postulated for Savannah; most of the part of the city built on the Oglethorpe grid has buried utilities, though) or on the main streets themselves (as here in Philadelphia).

The cost of repairing downed lines after storms must still be less than the lifecycle cost of burying those lines, or else I'd think the utility companies would have buried them already. Some suburban subdivisions, though, also have completely buried utilities, so clearly some developers consider them worth the cost.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Adding...

It's the only one in that part of CC with Rittenhouse being a huge part of the area along with many important business bldgs. Would folks really want to wait for the Chinatown and Old City stations to respond?

Not to contradict your point, because you're right here, but there is one more fire station that could conceivably respond to a fire in Center City's southwest quadrant: the one on Broad Street between Bainbridge and Fitzwater. Its primary coverage area includes parts of Rittenhouse and Washington Square West.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Not to contradict your point, because you're right here, but there is one more fire station that could conceivably respond to a fire in Center City's southwest quadrant: the one on Broad Street between Bainbridge and Fitzwater. Its primary coverage area includes parts of Rittenhouse and Washington Square West.

Thanks. Someone else mentioned that one.

[steeps]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Regarding utility lines and poles, steeps:

You should have noticed by now that there are no overhead utility lines anywhere in the centers of most North American cities.

That's because all the utilities - electric, telephone, CATV ("community antenna television," or cable) - run in buried conduits.

Besides being much more attractive, buried utility lines also are much less prone to service disruption due to weather.

But burying the lines is also much more expensive than suspending them from poles, so it's only in the most densely developed areas that all the utilities are buried - and then, as here, even many densely built areas may still have overhead utilities, either in back alleys (as you postulated for Savannah; most of the part of the city built on the Oglethorpe grid has buried utilities, though) or on the main streets themselves (as here in Philadelphia).

The cost of repairing downed lines after storms must still be less than the lifecycle cost of burying those lines, or else I'd think the utility companies would have buried them already. Some suburban subdivisions, though, also have completely buried utilities, so clearly some developers consider them worth the cost.

Yes for most Downtowns. But many times you do not have to go far and you see them. Even areas with newer homes that surely take away if you are no use to seeing them in fronts.

MY WHOLE POINT WAS A CITY WITH FULL ALLEYS. HAD THE PERFECT PLACE TO RUN ITS POWER-LINE POLES. AS CHICAGO HAS AND DID.....

That was my case in my years in Chicago verses other cities including most in the East-Coast Large to small cities. So if you live there you DO NOT SEE THE POLES IN FRONTS OF HOMES. Basically throughout the city.
.
The Poles, its Power-Lines and Transformers..... just are ugly. If normal in a city . You sort of ignore them and see through them. If you are in a city that puts in Alleys to underground. YOU NOTICE THEN VISITING OTHER CITIES..... if they don't. It then stands out.

But again I was use to NOT seeing the Poles .... outside of Downtown in Chicago also. When I lived there. ALL ARE IN ALLEYS that city kept standard. Until some last growth into the early 60s. Lining up streets to meet the suburban ones it in parts.... as it grew around them. Went with underground as the suburbs and driveways instead of alleys. ALL CHICAGO SUBURBS. Have power lines underground.

Just random streetview360°s show Philly kept the ugly poles on regular streets in even NEW developments north of CC.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9683...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9676...7i13312!8i6656

Older nice Row areas too
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9689...7i13312!8i6656

Nice area near the Art Museum. But the Poles are very present on main streets too.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9706...7i13312!8i6656
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

In Chicago agin.... They put ALL the power-lines in their Alleyways. WHY I CREDIT THAT CITIES NEIGHBORHOODS AND ITS ARCHITCTURE.

OLDER ORDINARY Chicago circa 1900 Neighborhood with both wood-frames Cottage homes on left and Greystones on right. Both pre-date its bungalow belt that began in 1910.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9315...7i13312!8i6656

Its Alley .....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9311...7i13312!8i6656

Another ORDINARY in North Austin, pre-WWII Bungalow homes on left and 1950s bungalow ranch that replaced it.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9113...7i13312!8i6656

Down its alley with streetview360° .....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9118...7i13312!8i6656

Another 1300 addresses East same street....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9117...7i13312!8i6656

Again the alley .....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9121...7i13312!8i6656

Another 1500 addresses East ....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9125...7i13312!8i6656

Its Alley again....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9130...7i13312!8i6656

Fashionable Lakeview... the above street ended before this neighborhood. So another street about where it would have been. Just before Lake Michigan SOME SURVIVING VICTORIAN ROWS...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9128...7i13312!8i6656

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by steeps

Yes for most Downtowns. But many times you do not have to go far and you see them. Even areas with newer homes that surely take away if you are no use to seeing them in fronts.

MY WHOLE POINT WAS A CITY WITH FULL ALLEYS. HAD THE PERFECT PLACE TO RUN ITS POWER-LINE POLES. AS CHICAGO HAS AND DID.....

You know, you actually got to the bottom of something here, despite your yelling tone. Although Philadelphia alleys are quite narrow. Minneapolis put most of their utility lines in alleys too. It's also where garbage collection took place. Still, most of our alleys are pretty narrow compared to the size of modern utility vehicles.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

You know, you actually got to the bottom of something here, despite your yelling tone. Although Philadelphia alleys are quite narrow. Minneapolis put most of their utility lines in alleys too. It's also where garbage collection took place. Still, most of our alleys are pretty narrow compared to the size of modern utility vehicles.

Maybe you and Steeps can talk about how you both seem to think mid-western cities are superior amongst yourselves.

[steeps]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Maybe you and Steeps can talk about how you both seem to think mid-western cities are superior amongst yourselves.

Well, I do think that city made better choices in street grid and housing varieties. But now I know Minneapolis ALSO may have utilized PHILLY'S ORIGINAL Street plan of William Penn on Alleys as Chicago and Followed Chicago's example after the Great Fire of Chicago in 1871. Minneapolis was incorporated in 1867. Chicago apparently widened their alleys..... from Penn's plan Minneapolis maybe not?

I do know Cleveland DID NOT. They have their Power-lines on the fronts of homes. Houston has them in fronts too. So it is NOT just Philly and Eastern cities.

But I have seen a Philly streetview that did go down a narrow Alley. North of CC and it wasn't Colonial era. But the Power-line poles still were on the streets. There were some garages there though. They are narrower then Chicago's and for vehicles a tight drive and have sidewalks surprisingly....

A narrow Calloway neighborhood alley with streetlight poles but not the Power-lines ones.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9632...8i6656!5m1!1e1

Its front gentrifying but the Power-lines and Poles were put on the fronts NOT ALLEYS

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9635...8i6656!5m1!1e1

I came out of the alley in streetview and it showed this poor condition building in 1911.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9632...8i6656!5m1!1e1

But when the YEAR of the streetview changed... to 1914. It is was being converted to this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9633...8i6656!5m1!1e1

I do credit Philadelphia and developers with RESTORING Those SEVERELY BLIGHTED buildings in NEIGHBORHOODS. Rather then leveling them. Chicago in the 90s did just that leveled the worst ... a campaign to CLEAR OUT BLIGHT OF DETERIORATED BUILDINGS ABANDONED THOUGH ITS SOUTH sides.

I still believe it was the right choice for them. It IMPROVED SAFETY and AESTHETICS. for those living there and freed land to do infill in the future. Crumbling buildings give a war-zone look that the city had enough bad rap for. Those buildings that lost windows and a safety hazard still get boarded up by the city and a RED X on it. But not tore down.

It did vastly clean up these neighborhoods and helped greatly those with children fearing all the abandonment for their safety and fire hazards to criminal and homeless use.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8788...7i13312!8i6656

The SCOURAGE OF THE RED X... on the left .... and poor old (could be gorgeous restored) Greystone variety home....that was home just boarded up by the city in condemnation on right..... with a City inspector on hand in the streetview ..... one day they will bounce back.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8787...7i13312!8i6656

I have read recently Chicago gave locals owning homes where cleared out blight has their lot next to a empty lot. Can buy it from the city for $1. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...ots-for-1-each.

City has 55,000 abandoned homes in Cook County. All Chicago and most Suburbs. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/asset...esponsive.html

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Information related to 25 year plan for Philadelphia


YouTube - ‪Philadelphia2035: The future begins now.‬‏


And the link to the complete plan
http://www.philaplanning.org/plans/final2035vision.pdf (broken link)

Main site
Philadelphia2035


Thoughts?

And now that we've had THAT discussion, let's get back to the OP^^^^