City of Philadelphia gets richer as some suburbs get poorer (Chester: home, neighborhood)

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

^Montco is very surprising but I'm wondering if larger towns like Norristown and Pottstown got that much poorer in recent years to drive down the county average.

High-income households stayed steady/increased, but lower-middle-income households saw an increase as well.

[pman]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

We will see. I should have the results together by the end of the weekend--maybe sooner if I'm good about getting my e-discovery paper done.

it doesn't make sense that they'd single out only one area to misrepresent.

[pman]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

That took a lot less time than I thought.

I'll post the full data sometime tomorrow, but in a nutshell, these so-called "drastic" increases in deep poverty notwithstanding, median household/per capita income have only slightly decreased in Gloucester, Delaware, and Montgomery Counties (the last one surprised me). Burlington and Camden stayed fairly steady (IE, for the most part, increases in higher-income households more than counterbalanced their lower-income counterparts). Chester, Bucks, and Philly saw slight increases (with Chester increasing more than Philly).

Originally Posted by RCdelco

What areas in Delaware County are receiving Philly's lower class/working class? I've been all over the county and I know there are a few historically working class enclaves, but I truly didn't think there were enough of those to have DelCo included in a study of this caliber.

the original quote is speculative, it isn't fact that it's all caused by "displacement." it doesn't account for other factors such as economic trends. still, "deep poverty" increased dramatically in chester and camden and deep poverty is one extreme end of the spectrum which would have an outsized effect on averages. montgomery county saw its rate of "deep poverty" DECREASE which to me says it is unlikely that norristown is dragging montgomery county down. more likely it is simply the result of the a) the recession dragging middle class incomes down and b) the loss of some high incomes to philly or chester. average income though is just another piece rather than the whole story.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by pman

the original quote is speculative, it isn't fact that it's all caused by "displacement." it doesn't account for other factors such as economic trends. still, "deep poverty" increased dramatically in chester and camden and deep poverty is one extreme end of the spectrum which would have an outsized effect on averages. montgomery county saw its rate of "deep poverty" DECREASE which to me says it is unlikely that norristown is dragging montgomery county down. more likely it is simply the result of the a) the recession dragging middle class incomes down and b) the loss of some high incomes to philly or chester. average income though is just another piece rather than the whole story.

Which is why I don't trust these pieces at face value and prefer doing the math myself. It's very interesting that of the "deep poverty" counties, only Gloucester and Delaware saw its medians decrease, and supposedly safe Montgomery County saw median decreases as well, albeit a bit past the "deep poverty" line. Deep poverty only increased very slightly in Chester.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of these changes were within the margin of error. IE, we'll need to keep close watch over the next couple of years to see if they even mean anything.

I'm now preparing the tables for uploading.

[pman]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Which is why I don't trust these pieces at face value and prefer doing the math myself. It's very interesting that of the "deep poverty" counties, only Gloucester and Delaware saw its medians decrease, and supposedly safe Montgomery County saw median decreases as well, albeit a bit past the "deep poverty" line.

well, median and "deep poverty (I think it's those below $13k in income) are two different things...average is also different from median and deep poverty.
the inquirer article contains more information than the first two 9the PBJ and philadelinquency). what philly d is right about is that its good or the city's tax base since it means the poorest are "diversifying" if you will (at least in termsof counties) rather than concentrating in Philly. on the flip side, they are concentrating in chester and camden mostly but also moving into burclo and glouco. it does mean that deep poverty increases are not driving montco's median income declines.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by pman

well, median and "deep poverty (I think it's those below $13k in income) are two different things...average is also different from median and deep poverty.
the inquirer article contains more information than the first two 9the PBJ and philadelinquency). what philly d is right about is that its good or the city's tax base since it means the poorest are "diversifying" if you will (at least in termsof counties) rather than concentrating in Philly. on the flip side, they are concentrating in chester and camden mostly but also moving into burclo and glouco. it does mean that deep poverty increases are not driving montco's median income declines.

I know how statistics work. Means are good relative to medians when assessing skew, but are less necessary (and quite frankly, distracting) when you have a full income distribution table to use as a reference.

[Aimewitue]

I wonder if this takes into account the VAST areas of North,South and West Philly that have deep poverty.

Sure Center city and the surrounding areas have gained more wealthier residents.

Center city is an island of prosperity surrounded by an ocean of poverty......the question is will the ocean swallow the island whole.......or will the island grow and expand into the ocean??

[Angus215]

Originally Posted by Aimewitue

I wonder if this takes into account the VAST areas of North,South and West Philly that have deep poverty.

Sure Center city and the surrounding areas have gained more wealthier residents.

Center city is an island of prosperity surrounded by an ocean of poverty......the question is will the ocean swallow the island whole.......or will the island grow and expand into the ocean??

The "island" has been expanding for the past couple of decades, if not longer, and is certainly not limited to center city. Just like water that is displaced, however, the "ocean" must go somewhere, and it has swallowed other formerly working class areas.

[ElijahAstin]

Here are my results (using 2012 inflation adjusted dollars):

[scribd]182706829[/scribd]

For anyone who doesn't care to go through the entire spreadsheet, the following changes met/surpassed the margin of error (90% confidence interval):

Burlington County
23.3% increase in households earning <$10,000.
31.8% increase in households earning $10,000-$14,999.
8.6% increase in households earning $75,000-$99,999.

Camden County
12.7% increase in households earning <$10,000.
17.0% decrease in households earning $10,000-$14,999.
10.0% decrease in households earning $35,000-$49,999.
8.9% decrease in households earning $100,000-$149,999.

Gloucester County
29.0% increase in households earning <$10,000.
14.1% decrease in households earning $15,000-$24,999.
14.8% decrease in households earning $25,000-$34,999.
10.5% increase in households earning $50,000-$74,999.

Bucks County
14.3% decrease in households earning $10,000-$14,999.
10.4% decrease in households earning $15,000-$25,000-$34,999.
5.9% increase in households earning $75,000-$99,999.
4.9% increase in households earning $100,000-$149,999.
4.3% increase in median household income.

Chester County
8.8% increase in households earning $100,000-$149,999.
3.5% increase in per capita income.

Delaware County
28.6% increase in households earning <$10,000.
18.4% increase in households earning $10,000-$14,999.
15.6% decrease in households earning $35,000-$49,999.
7.3% increase in households earning $100,000-$149,999.
16.0% decrease in households earning >$200,000.

Montgomery County
14.3% decrease in households earning <$10,000.
19.4% increase in households earning $15,000-$24,999.
6.7% decrease in households earning $150,000-$199,999.

Philadelphia County
5.1% decrease in households earning <$10,000.
6.7% increase in households earning $50,000-$74,999.
6.5% decrease in households earning $75,000-$99,999.
2.0% increase in per capita income.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

You don't exactly come off rude as you do consistently classist and frequently racist. I knew this topic would draw you out and give you the opportunity to say something gross about poor people.

There was no part of my post that was not true. Insinuate what you want.

Originally Posted by RCdelco

What areas in Delaware County are receiving Philly's lower class/working class? I've been all over the county and I know there are a few historically working class enclaves, but I truly didn't think there were enough of those to have DelCo included in a study of this caliber.

Your wise enough to know: Chester, Yeadon, Woodlyn, all of those little towns and the city of Chester, Upper Darby, old boroughs close to the city continue to decline, resulting in the lowering statistics for the whole county. Another poster mentioned it is not a widespread epidemic in any of the counties, it is an isolated problem followed by an article with an exaggerated title that really had nothing to do with the overall well being of the counties mentioned on the list.