SUBWAYS in Philadelphia (York, Washington: city hall, insurance, home)

[Tiger Beer]

How are the subways in Philadelphia?

I lived in New York City for a few years...and LOVED the subways...loved not having a car...loved that they were 24 hours...appreciated the fact they were so extensive and used by anyone at anytime.

Later I lived in San Francisco...and the public transportation there was horrible.

Curious how PHILADEPHIA would compare to NYC. Somewhat similar? 24 hours? Extensive?

I don't have any experience with Boston or DC subways...but I am curious how Philadephia might compare with their cities as well as accessability and extensiveness.

Also, is it possible to live in Philadephia and be dependent on the subways for everything (much like NYC?) Is it a city that a car is more of a burden or more of a necessity?

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

How are the subways in Philadelphia?

I lived in New York City for a few years...and LOVED the subways...loved not having a car...loved that they were 24 hours...appreciated the fact they were so extensive and used by anyone at anytime.

Later I lived in San Francisco...and the public transportation there was horrible.

Curious how PHILADEPHIA would compare to NYC. Somewhat similar? 24 hours? Extensive?

I don't have any experience with Boston or DC subways...but I am curious how Philadephia might compare with their cities as well as accessability and extensiveness.

Also, is it possible to live in Philadephia and be dependent on the subways for everything (much like NYC?) Is it a city that a car is more of a burden or more of a necessity?

The subway cars themselves are okay; perhaps some of the Broad Street cars could stand to be replaced or rehabbed. The Market-Frankford El and the light rail trolleys are fine. Unfortunately some people feel the need to express their "artistic side" on these vehicles which can mar the experience.

As for the subway stations, that's a cause for conversation and debate here. There are those who feel that the subways are not safe, particularly after rush hour or if you're not from the neighborhoods outside Center City. There have been some highly publicized situations on the news, some of which you could probably find on the forum search engine.

On the other hand, there are those who might say if you have a fair amount of common sense and street wisdom, you'll likely be fine on the subways.

Our subways technically do not run all night. The Broad Street line and the El will run shuttle buses after midnight or so.

Regarding other cities, DC's Metrorail is sort of a hybrid of subway and commuter rail so it might be an unfair comparison to our subways. That said, it's very clean... but it's also relatively young.

I find it interesting that you don't like SF's transportation. I suppose you're thinking of the MUNI subways? I wasn't on those a whole lot during my visits but I can see how they could use some upgrading. On the other hand, BART - the equivalent of SEPTA's Regional Rail and DC's Metrorail - was great!

Owning a car in the city limits can be expensive due to insurance, limited parking and such. One can probably do without a car in most of Philly - the Northeast notwithstanding - especially if one's job or home is convenient to Center City or one of the subways.

[Philly Dave]

One thing you need to realize is that the Philadelphia subway system is not very extensive. The main subway lines basically form a cross, meeting at City Hall, so there are huge portions of the city that are not served by the subway system. (A few trolley lines stretch the system's reach somewhat to the SW parts of the city and inner suburbs.) So unless you happen to live fairly close to one of the lines, you may be forced to rely on alternate means, such as the bus system or regional rail lines. For more info, go to www.septa.org.

[CHIP72]

No city in the U.S. can really be compared to NYC in terms of subway system comprehensiveness; the only systems remotely comparable are Chicago and Washington.

As noted above, buses are used in place of train service on the Market-Frankford Line and Broad Street Line from 12-5 AM. The PATCO High-Speed Line between Philadelphia and New Jersey does run 24 hours (with limited service overnight). FWIW, besides the PATCO line, the only other subway lines that operate 24 hours in the U.S. are most of the trains in the New York MTA and 2 of the lines (Red, Blue) in the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA).

[solibs]

The PATH trains in North Jersey run all night.

How easy life is without a car in Philadelphia is the same as it is in New York. There are plenty of places in B'klyn, Queens and the Bronx and all of Staten Island that are nowhere near a subway station. Like those neighborhoods you have to take a bus to get to the subway. And like NYC the subway system was developed to get people downtown so getting from one part of the city to another often involves going into Center City then coming back out on a different route. Although, since the transit in Philly is more or less a grid system it's not all that bad. You can get to most places in the city and suburbs in one transfer or none at all.

As far as the day-to-day it really depends on what neighborhood you live in. Some neighborhoods have all of the basics and for what you don't have nearby you hop on a bus or train. About 35% of households in Philly are car-free and almost as many have only one car so it's not like we don't have the infrastructure to support all those people. Almost every vendor of any bulk item will deliver here. Taxis are abundant and relatively inexpensive and we have phillycarshare and zipcar.

I've been here 9 years without a car and only in the last month have I seriously been considering getting one and only because I have a new job in the suburbs which requires a time-consuming transfer at a ridiculous hour of the morning. When I worked in the city it was never an issue but some of the suburban routes only run once an hour before 6 am so . . .

[Geo_of_Philly]

Well, if you live in center city or along the subway lines you can get by fine without a car. However, most neighborhoods and suburbs don't have good SEPTA service and getting around can be a real hassle and time waster. The buses and trolleys are really slow and the regional rail is ridiculously expensive and trains don't come by frequently, sometimes forcing you to wait for a long time not so comfortably (I waited more than 20 mins. once). Back to the subways, the El is OK and has some comfortable seats. The Broad Street Line is crap and sketchy after 8-9 pm. I think Philly could use a new line that covers south Philly, South St., the Parkway, ...

[gfspeople]

septa is good, but it can be dirty. One of the huge bonuses about it is that is comes so frequently that it is very convenient for quick trips. I like septa, but it can also be dangerous, because of some of the people who ride them. It is a good public transportation system compared to some cites though

[solibs]

Originally Posted by Geo_of_Philly

However, most neighborhoods and suburbs don't have good SEPTA service and getting around can be a real hassle and time waster.

I would argue that just about everywhere in the suburbs east of the blue route and south of 276 has exceptional transit service when measured against comparable suburbs anywhere else in the country.

The buses and trolleys are really slow and the regional rail is ridiculously expensive and trains don't come by frequently,

A base regional rail ticket is $3. A 45 mile ride costs $7. That seems like a pretty good deal to me.

sometimes forcing you to wait for a long time not so comfortably (I waited more than 20 mins. once).

If you don't have a schedule you call 215.580.7800, operators are standing by.

[freudgirl]

When compared to NYC, the philly system is really tiny. There are really only two subway lines and then there are trolleys that run in west philly. Personally, I don't like using the subway system because I can rarely get to where I need to go. Also it is expensive (2 bucks a ride) and I would rather drive and pay the meter, which is cheaper.

[Night_Owl49]

One token is only $1.45, but you need to buy at least two from the token machines. You can get deals though (10 tokens for $14 and change and SEPTA cards). I take the Market-Frankford line all the time and generally find it quick and reliable.