White Picket Fence - The Destination? (soul, nature, marriage, society)
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Live your life however that it makes you happy. As long as while doing so, your way of life does no harm to others. You do not want your lifestyle to diminishes anyone's life either, that you may be responsible for. And just remember as each year of your life passes by there are no "do-overs" for anyone, once the opportunities of their youth is gone.
This thread makes me think of a frustrating difference in perspective between my ex and I.
He is 51, so an older Gen X.
I am 40, so the youngest of Gen X.
He grew up in suburban Iowa, and his youth was the late 70s through 80s. I grew up near DC, and my teenage years were the 90s. He was into KISS and torn jeans and glam metal and is more conservative. I was into goth stuff, vampires and clove ciggies and an outlook I can only describe as darkly snarky, and I am more liberal (at least in some ways, and compared to him.)
When we got together, I said many times that I didn't want to be a wife or a mother. Yet he maneuvered me into that life, without my consent, and I thought it was just happenstance (I'm not sure about that now.) But what's wild is that now, I can say:
"The lifestyle that our situation, and your dreams, put me into, wasn't one that I consented to in the beginning, nor ever truly wanted." And what I mean, is that I feel that my dreams and wishes for myself were subordinated to his, I did not want the white picket fence, which I view as a horrific kind of mediocrity to settle for. I want to do something more creative, unusual, or interesting with my life.
And he can say:
"The lifestyle that we had was never what you really wanted, not from the beginning." And say it with such bitterness and accusation, like he is saying it to mean, "You are a garbage, selfish human being, because you should have found your life's greatest fulfillment in being my wife and mothering my sons. It's disgusting that you wanted more. I gave you a house! How dare you? You're just sick." And because being a Mom wasn't what I really wanted, he tries to imply that I'm not a good one...which isn't true. You can find yourself in a situation you didn't necessarily dream of, yet handle it with as much grace and determination as you've got to give, and that is what I did.
But have I been waiting for my sons to be grown so that I can get on with some of my own goals? Yes. Damn straight, I have. And I was thrilled to get out from under that house when we divorced, to wash my hands of any tie or responsibility to it.
I think he assumed that if I were forced into the role, I would find that being a wife and mother is the True Ultimate Fulfillment of any woman's best self. And if I did not feel that way, not only am I a bad person, but it just goes to show that women are horrible nowadays, gone right off the reservation like. With our ridiculous desires to be valid for more than our roles in relation to our men. The horrors. The nerve.
I never felt any meaningful pressure from anyone or anywhere, to check off some list of "Marry, reproduce, live in nice house in the burbs" life goals. What has driven me instead is the realization that for most of my family tree, I can rarely get any indication about who any of my ancestors were as people. They are a name, some dates, and the fact that they reproduced. They are dehumanized by the sheer lack of information, just a link in a chain. Their children didn't keep their memories alive, not ultimately, no one really did. So I have a pull to create "immortality projects" that are a bit more enduring. Art, writing, that kind of thing. Because I wish very much that I had more stuff like that from my own ancestors. I really do.
You know, the whole dream of owning a nice house, with your very compatible significant other and kids.. maybe a cute dog too? Too picture perfect, right? That's what I mostly see around me. Is this a baby boomer generation thing? I'm a millennial and it doesn't look like that's the goal in my generation. I have at least 20 cousins, and only one has a family. Was it to have the nice house, great family and good job setup pushed on us by our parents as we grew up? Or was it something we commonly saw, and thought that it was where we should end up in the future? Am I exaggerating? Recently, I thought differently on this. Picturing it, it seems really nice. However, it's not always pretty beneath the surface. Around what age should you have these things by? What should you have accomplished? Like I said before, maybe it's just a generational view. Many friends of mine aren't in a rush for that. Many people I graduated with aren't even close to that "goal". The baby boomers we're married and had a house in their 20s. Statistically, I may be wrong but I would think at least the majority of those in their 20s right now don't own a house. Maybe it's the fact that I live in a expensive state which gives me a biased view. So, does it really matter if you live in a apartment or RV for the majority of your life? Does it matter if you are 35 and don't have kids? Would your parent(s) judge you for not having that picture perfect setup in your life at a certain age? Or not checking a box off the "adulthood list", such as being married or having a good job? What is your view on this? Why are those things so important from a parent perspective? Or WERE so important? For a happy life? Or just following the same path like everyone else?
well I am a millennial too and I want to get married and have kids.I have always wanted to.I remember I wanted to settle down and get married when I was in my early to mid twenties but I havent yet.I have realized that a lot of our generation doesnt want marriage and kids.All of my friends seem to be getting married and having babies.I only have one cousin who is not married with a family.I would not be happy in a camper or apartment for most of my life.I want to get married in the next few years.Most of my cousins have their own houses.I could not imagine myself never getting married and never having kids.
Most of the world is overpopulated. The USA is leaving the industrial age. Young adults having kids later or never is a natural consequence of being unable to support families with low wages and intermittent employment. Buying a home is a risk of being stuck where the jobs aren't. Meanwhile, they look for anything else to do with their lives.
So they are seemingly happy playing Peter Pan and staying in Never never land.
My wife and I are in the mid-40s now. But when we were in our 20s, we spent many years moving and shifting from place to place. Jobs to jobs. We love the idea of living near our jobs so we move when we got new jobs. Plus, we enjoy living in new places. Makes it less boring. We decided not to have children so we added a little long hair chihuahua into the family.
In our mid-30s we bought a house because it was cheaper to buy than rent. We've been in that house eversince. It is now valued twice what we paid for. But we didn't buy it as an investment, we bought it because it was cheaper to buy than rent.
Live your life the way you want to with No Regrets. Remember, choices you made yesterday affects today. Today choices affects tomorrows. You determine your life and your future, no one else does. If you aren't happy with today's result, make better choices today for a better tomorrow.
Live your life however that it makes you happy. As long as while doing so, your way of life does no harm to others. You do not want your lifestyle to diminishes anyone's life either, that you may be responsible for. And just remember as each year of your life passes by there are no "do-overs" for anyone, once the opportunities of their youth is gone.
Life motto right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
This thread makes me think of a frustrating difference in perspective between my ex and I.
He is 51, so an older Gen X.
I am 40, so the youngest of Gen X.
He grew up in suburban Iowa, and his youth was the late 70s through 80s. I grew up near DC, and my teenage years were the 90s. He was into KISS and torn jeans and glam metal and is more conservative. I was into goth stuff, vampires and clove ciggies and an outlook I can only describe as darkly snarky, and I am more liberal (at least in some ways, and compared to him.)
When we got together, I said many times that I didn't want to be a wife or a mother. Yet he maneuvered me into that life, without my consent, and I thought it was just happenstance (I'm not sure about that now.) But what's wild is that now, I can say:
"The lifestyle that our situation, and your dreams, put me into, wasn't one that I consented to in the beginning, nor ever truly wanted." And what I mean, is that I feel that my dreams and wishes for myself were subordinated to his, I did not want the white picket fence, which I view as a horrific kind of mediocrity to settle for. I want to do something more creative, unusual, or interesting with my life.
And he can say:
"The lifestyle that we had was never what you really wanted, not from the beginning." And say it with such bitterness and accusation, like he is saying it to mean, "You are a garbage, selfish human being, because you should have found your life's greatest fulfillment in being my wife and mothering my sons. It's disgusting that you wanted more. I gave you a house! How dare you? You're just sick." And because being a Mom wasn't what I really wanted, he tries to imply that I'm not a good one...which isn't true. You can find yourself in a situation you didn't necessarily dream of, yet handle it with as much grace and determination as you've got to give, and that is what I did.
But have I been waiting for my sons to be grown so that I can get on with some of my own goals? Yes. Damn straight, I have. And I was thrilled to get out from under that house when we divorced, to wash my hands of any tie or responsibility to it.
I think he assumed that if I were forced into the role, I would find that being a wife and mother is the True Ultimate Fulfillment of any woman's best self. And if I did not feel that way, not only am I a bad person, but it just goes to show that women are horrible nowadays, gone right off the reservation like. With our ridiculous desires to be valid for more than our roles in relation to our men. The horrors. The nerve.
I never felt any meaningful pressure from anyone or anywhere, to check off some list of "Marry, reproduce, live in nice house in the burbs" life goals. What has driven me instead is the realization that for most of my family tree, I can rarely get any indication about who any of my ancestors were as people. They are a name, some dates, and the fact that they reproduced. They are dehumanized by the sheer lack of information, just a link in a chain. Their children didn't keep their memories alive, not ultimately, no one really did. So I have a pull to create "immortality projects" that are a bit more enduring. Art, writing, that kind of thing. Because I wish very much that I had more stuff like that from my own ancestors. I really do.
Sucks that you got steered into it. Should have stood your ground, even if you didn't feel pressured. If you felt that it cut off the chance to reach some goals, it may have been worth sacrificing the relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefong123
Live your life the way you want to with No Regrets. Remember, choices you made yesterday affects today. Today choices affects tomorrows. You determine your life and your future, no one else does. If you aren't happy with today's result, make better choices today for a better tomorrow.
You know, the whole dream of owning a nice house, with your very compatible significant other and kids.. maybe a cute dog too? Around what age should you have these things by? What should you have accomplished?
I owned my own house when I was 30 and had children in my 40s. It worked for me.
I think it’s up to every individual person to search for their own happiness and goals in life. All I would honestly urge and ask anyone to do (as someone who majored in philosophy) is be introspective and question everything. I think not “even” the most common things, but “especially” the most common. Let’s say something like showing up on time. Well, when you question something obvious you come to a better and clearer understanding of the importance. “Gee, if I don’t show up to meet a friend for lunch on time, he may think I don’t respect him or don’t value him, and I do! I’d never want that. I also want to be a person of my word because that’s important to me.” Now you have concrete reasons for your behavior beyond “it’s a societal expectation.” It is, and in this case, I think it’s a very valid one!
But take having kids, the math doesn’t make sense for me. I can’t do the math for you, or anyone else, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t like kids, I find them mostly annoying, I haven’t achieved my largest life goals and anything that gets in the way of those goals is an obstacle. My goals also cost money, which kids cost too, so they’re competing for resources I need. I don’t have any desire to wake up early, or many times a night, and I don’t care to choose my house by the school district. I can think of 1,000 negatives and nothing positive at all. Yet indeed society is obsessed with you having kids somehow and like it’s some magical thing that you must be a monster not to want. Yet from my perspective I can’t understand kids as much as I can understand climbing Everest. I wouldn’t do either, but at least one is a rare achievement and admirable, while the other isn’t an achievement at all.
By the way I hate white picket fences. I think they’re hideous. I also think green grass is just annoying. It’s neither good nor bad, but certainly overrated. The idea that anyone would spend either time or money maintaining a yard is baffling to me. I just am not going to live long enough to waste time on nonsense like that where it doesn’t bring me any happiness. It seems like mindless suburbia, where you’re working most of the time, then dealing with the kids, and household chores, and anything even remotely considered “fun” somehow revolves around the kids. I would shoot myself in the head before I ever engaged in that “dream life.” Sounds like a complete nightmare.
Yet from my perspective I can’t understand kids as much as I can understand climbing Everest. I wouldn’t do either, but at least one is a rare achievement and admirable, while the other isn’t an achievement at all.
Like you said, very few people will ever be able to climb to the top of Everest or become a rock star or go to outer space.
That is why 99% of humanity settle for smaller goals, like owning a house, advancing in one's career and raising a family.
I think it’s up to every individual person to search for their own happiness and goals in life. All I would honestly urge and ask anyone to do (as someone who majored in philosophy) is be introspective and question everything. I think not “even” the most common things, but “especially” the most common. Let’s say something like showing up on time. Well, when you question something obvious you come to a better and clearer understanding of the importance. “Gee, if I don’t show up to meet a friend for lunch on time, he may think I don’t respect him or don’t value him, and I do! I’d never want that. I also want to be a person of my word because that’s important to me.” Now you have concrete reasons for your behavior beyond “it’s a societal expectation.” It is, and in this case, I think it’s a very valid one!
But take having kids, the math doesn’t make sense for me. I can’t do the math for you, or anyone else, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t like kids, I find them mostly annoying, I haven’t achieved my largest life goals and anything that gets in the way of those goals is an obstacle. My goals also cost money, which kids cost too, so they’re competing for resources I need. I don’t have any desire to wake up early, or many times a night, and I don’t care to choose my house by the school district. I can think of 1,000 negatives and nothing positive at all. Yet indeed society is obsessed with you having kids somehow and like it’s some magical thing that you must be a monster not to want. Yet from my perspective I can’t understand kids as much as I can understand climbing Everest. I wouldn’t do either, but at least one is a rare achievement and admirable, while the other isn’t an achievement at all.
By the way I hate white picket fences. I think they’re hideous. I also think green grass is just annoying. It’s neither good nor bad, but certainly overrated. The idea that anyone would spend either time or money maintaining a yard is baffling to me. I just am not going to live long enough to waste time on nonsense like that where it doesn’t bring me any happiness. It seems like mindless suburbia, where you’re working most of the time, then dealing with the kids, and household chores, and anything even remotely considered “fun” somehow revolves around the kids. I would shoot myself in the head before I ever engaged in that “dream life.” Sounds like a complete nightmare.
Just remember, many others do not see it that way. You are on the verge of sounding rude about your way as being superior, because you don't relate. I find outdoor work relaxing and the fact that it is my piece of the outdoors to do with as I wish, is wonderful. People also cherish and enjoy their children and spending time with them, they are not children forever.
If you are living for points and achievements, then you may be disappointed. I think boomers instilled this competitive individualist mindset in their kids which was a mistake. They didn't allow them to be in the moment.
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