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But as fashionable as it is to bag on the suburbs... there are reasons why this is a popular choice. Safe neighborhoods, increasing home values, quiet non-criminal neighbors, cops who aren't constantly on edge and looking to **** somebody up... these are things one comes to appreciate after a decade or two of renting on a budget
I don’t think people ‘bag on the suburbs’ - well, on second thought, maybe they do. That said, it’s not the home or the yard that is perceived as the problem, though - I think it’s the ‘mediocrity’ or level of perceived sameness in people’s lives which turns some people off. As someone who loves (and works in) the City, I also know how beautiful the living can be further out in a more scenic, less congested area with land. It’s just two different lifestyles - and neither is wrong. I see the positives in both (and preferences may change as we get older). In fact, in my opinion, it’s not where you end up physically, but rather where you are emotionally, which matters. We should be enjoying the journey, no matter the destination we take ourselves.
I don’t think people ‘bag on the suburbs’ - well, on second thought, maybe they do. That said, it’s not the home or the yard that is perceived as the problem, though - I think it’s the ‘mediocrity’ or level of perceived sameness in people’s lives which turns some people off. As someone who loves (and works in) the City, I also know how beautiful the living can be further out in a more scenic, less congested area with land. It’s just two different lifestyles - and neither is wrong. I see the positives in both (and preferences may change as we get older). In fact, in my opinion, it’s not where you end up physically, but rather where you are emotionally, which matters. We should be enjoying the journey, no matter the destination we take ourselves.
I agree with your last statement very much.
But I look at what you say about a "less congested area with land" and unfortunately that's not what suburban life has been for me. Like, the yard was not enough land to be "land" it was only exactly enough to be a pain in the backside to maintain. The neighbors were a few feet away, close enough to be nosy and in your business, yet never friendly or polite. No one wanted to act like a community or make friends. Only to complain if you parked your car somewhere they didn't like, or left your Christmas lights up a week longer than the HOA covenants said you could.
And yes, the mediocrity is annoying. And frankly, the way I hear some folks talk about renting vs owning...I mean, I get that your mortgage payments build equity which is an investment you can borrow against later if you need to, and you could profit by one day if you sell the house, etc. I get that. But most of the people I look at in the burbs, they never pay off their mortgages, they never truly OWN their homes, the bank does. Housing is still an expense, for the foreseeable forever future, and you lose the freedom to just move on if you want.
But it's more than that to me, the restless irritation I've got with that whole mediocrity gig. It's somebody telling me that I, as a woman, SHOULD be fulfilled simply by having had babies and raised babies and I should be waiting for grandbabies, because being a proper woman is all about babies and children, and maybe cooking or crocheting, or something else that is cute and domestic and serves the needs of the babies. And I ought to have had a husband whose identity and success was about his career. A protector/provider, and a nurturing Mom, and there's your wholesome, whitebread perfect American suburban happily-ever-after. And once we're gone, and our estates dispersed, it'll be what...like 2 generations before our names are forgotten? Just a couple more boring dead suburbanites who never did anything interesting. But hey. He retired with a pension, and she had nice babies.
Meanwhile they paid their taxes and mowed the grass and participated dutifully in the American Dream, spending the days of their lives grinding out value for the wealthy and powerful, earning money and spending money, eating and pooping like proper members of the herd.
But it's more than that to me, the restless irritation I've got with that whole mediocrity gig. It's somebody telling me that I, as a woman, SHOULD be fulfilled simply by having had babies and raised babies and I should be waiting for grandbabies, because being a proper woman is all about babies and children, and maybe cooking or crocheting, or something else that is cute and domestic and serves the needs of the babies. And I ought to have had a husband whose identity and success was about his career. A protector/provider, and a nurturing Mom, and there's your wholesome, whitebread perfect American suburban happily-ever-after.
For the record, I am a father of 2 children and I feel that spending time with my family is one of the most fulfilling things I do in my life.
Each of us has to decide what makes us happy and then pursue our dreams. When you were a kid, did you want to become a rock star when you grew up? Well, I've been following certain rock stars for decades and even many of them say that spending time with their families is much more meaningful to them than touring and being away from home for months at a time.
Aim high, dream big, but sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for too.
For the record, I am a father of 2 children and I feel that spending time with my family is one of the most fulfilling things I do in my life.
Each of us has to decide what makes us happy and then pursue our dreams. When you were a kid, did you want to become a rock star when you grew up? Well, I've been following certain rock stars for decades and even many of them say that spending time with their families is much more meaningful to them than touring and being away from home for months at a time.
Aim high, dream big, but sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for too.
I did not want to be a rock star, no.
I am friends with a few, and their lifestyle is anything but glamorous, actually. Touring is harder work than people think!
I wanted to make things, build things, do art and invent stuff. Work with my hands. Be a maker. Later I considered being a tattoo artist, but I let go of that one because the artists I know, either struggle to make ends meet, or if they're good, they have no time to do anything but work.
I've had some other ideas. But mainly I want to write, to leave my story behind, so even if my kids don't care, if their children's children's children are curious, it's there for them. But really I feel like sharing information is where my passion is at, making new connections with new people constantly, hearing their stories and sharing mine with them. Networking is more than a passion, it's a key element of my lifestyle. Making 20 new friends...acquaintances? Friends? Who cares?...a week, that's a good start.
I do enjoy spending time with my sons, we are going on a day trip tomorrow that should be a lot of fun. But by and large, their passions are not things that I care about and vice versa, they're around the age to get out there and start figuring out their lives as young adults. I am not going to mope around the empty house, I've got stuff to do.
I guess I never really saw my children to be extensions of my ego to carry ME on when there's no ME left here on Earth. I think some folks are able to see their kids as their "immortality projects"...my ex is. I'm not. I am quite distant from my own parents, and I don't feel ok about sort of passing through all of my life-effort and just sitting down and waiting for my sons to make something of it. I am not suggesting that other parents are doing that, I'm mostly expressing frustration with the mismatch of expectations and life philosophies that were major conflicts in my marriage. And my wish that my ancestors (especially many of the women) left behind more information about WHO they were.
But I look at what you say about a "less congested area with land" and unfortunately that's not what suburban life has been for me. Like, the yard was not enough land to be "land" it was only exactly enough to be a pain in the backside to maintain. The neighbors were a few feet away, close enough to be nosy and in your business, yet never friendly or polite. No one wanted to act like a community or make friends. Only to complain if you parked your car somewhere they didn't like, or left your Christmas lights up a week longer than the HOA covenants said you could.
As I said, the choice in land is really not the point. Some prefer city living, some prefer a small yard, others want acreage or hillside. Affordability is a factor as well. The point is to drop the expectation of the standard ‘American dream’ - and be willing to work for your own version of it (while at the same time not have tunnel vision to the journey itself).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
And yes, the mediocrity is annoying. And frankly, the way I hear some folks talk about renting vs owning...I mean, I get that your mortgage payments build equity which is an investment you can borrow against later if you need to, and you could profit by one day if you sell the house, etc. I get that. But most of the people I look at in the burbs, they never pay off their mortgages, they never truly OWN their homes, the bank does. Housing is still an expense, for the foreseeable forever future, and you lose the freedom to just move on if you want.
But it's more than that to me, the restless irritation I've got with that whole mediocrity gig. It's somebody telling me that I, as a woman, SHOULD be fulfilled simply by having had babies and raised babies and I should be waiting for grandbabies, because being a proper woman is all about babies and children, and maybe cooking or crocheting, or something else that is cute and domestic and serves the needs of the babies. And I ought to have had a husband whose identity and success was about his career. A protector/provider, and a nurturing Mom, and there's your wholesome, whitebread perfect American suburban happily-ever-after. And once we're gone, and our estates dispersed, it'll be what...like 2 generations before our names are forgotten? Just a couple more boring dead suburbanites who never did anything interesting. But hey. He retired with a pension, and she had nice babies.
This is why I say don’t lose sight of the journey or settle for what society’s expectations are - we’ve only got this life, let it be about your own choices, not someone else’s. Some people consider home ownership an (excellent) investment, others want the freedom of renting and not feeling ‘tied down’. There are those who want kids and those who don’t. I don’t understand your ‘proper woman’ statement - I think it’s antiquated, but I do agree people need to sort and think of their own dream; and even then, enjoy the living day to day rather than be caught up on where they are going. That said, I respect a woman who is invested in a child’s life (when she has chosen to be a mom) equal to one who chooses not to have babies - as long as there is passion for life. Much of the mediocrity, at the end of the day - comes from our mind and not so much by what surrounds us. Happiness can’t be perceived as mediocrity, no matter what it looks like (or what color the fence). We only perceive mediocrity in our discontent.
As I said, the choice in land is really not the point. Some prefer city living, some prefer a small yard, others want acreage or hillside. Affordability is a factor as well. The point is to drop the expectation of the standard ‘American dream’ - and be willing to work for your own version of it (while at the same time not have tunnel vision to the journey itself).
This is why I say don’t lose sight of the journey or settle for what society’s expectations are - we’ve only got this life, let it be about your own choices, not someone else’s. Some people consider home ownership an (excellent) investment, others want the freedom of renting and not feeling ‘tied down’. There are those who want kids and those who don’t. I don’t understand your ‘proper woman’ statement - I think it’s antiquated, but I do agree people need to sort and think of their own dream; and even then, enjoy the living day to day rather than be caught up on where they are going. That said, I respect a woman who is invested in a child’s life (when she has chosen to be a mom) equal to one who chooses not to have babies - as long as there is passion for life. Much of the mediocrity, at the end of the day - comes from our mind and not so much by what surrounds us. Happiness can’t be perceived as mediocrity, no matter what it looks like (or what color the fence). We only perceive mediocrity in our discontent.
Yes, and that is brilliantly said.
The bold part... Did you see, they made a Jurassic Park film, "Jurassic World" in 2015. One of the central plot points of it, the real story being told against a backdrop of shrieking and roaring and dino chases... Was that there once was this, cold, career-driven woman. Her heart was made of ice. And she had a sister, who was "in" on the magic of a woman's real purpose, motherhood. One day, the children were sent to the park to be in the company of their Auntie, who didn't even like children. Or at least she didn't think she did. (Silly thing also didn't think she wanted to date this hunky man who wanted her, she thought she wanted to focus on...*laugh*...her CAREER of all things...*laugh*) So, long story short, when forced to confront danger with the children, she has to protect them, and her maternal instincts blossom like a rose, and it is then and only then, that she can allow her heart to thaw and to let love in.
Awwwww...
/vomit
That's before we even get to the Unobtanium...I mean Indominous Rex.
No, I agree with you, what is beautiful is people being genuine, and pursuing their own happiness, no matter what that looks like. I'm only talking this way because I spent 18 years in service to a life I didn't want, with a person I didn't like, who accuses me to this day of being an ingrate for not appreciating the picket fence lifestyle we achieved together, that was never any dream of mine to begin with.
There's a movie from the 1990s called Pleasantville.
Watch it.
It hit home when I saw it back when I knew my dream of the white picket fence, the home, the children, had crashed and burned. Changed my whole attitude about what life "should" be.
For the record, I am a father of 2 children and I feel that spending time with my family is one of the most fulfilling things I do in my life.
Each of us has to decide what makes us happy and then pursue our dreams. When you were a kid, did you want to become a rock star when you grew up? Well, I've been following certain rock stars for decades and even many of them say that spending time with their families is much more meaningful to them than touring and being away from home for months at a time.
Except - not everyone has the same ‘white picket fence’ destination. Your point made through rock stars seems to suggest that, ultimately - we should all find ultimate fulfillment in being a dad, because even rock stars do. I love music, but I’ve never ‘followed’ rock stars yet alone for ‘decades’; other people shouldn’t have an effect on (or provide endorsement for) your white picket fence destination.
Except - not everyone has the same ‘white picket fence’ destination. Your point made through rock stars seems to suggest that, ultimately - we should all find ultimate fulfillment in being a dad, because even rock stars do. I love music, but I’ve never ‘followed’ rock stars yet alone for ‘decades’; other people shouldn’t have an effect on (or provide endorsement for) your white picket fence destination.
If the two have anything in common, in my mind, it's that the ideal of this could wind up being quite different than the reality of this.
In dreaming of having children, does anyone tell a young lady about the sheer volume of bodily fluids involved with birth, babies, small children? The poop-art-incidents?
Does anyone tell aspiring rock musicians about the realities of bumping along through the night, past endless endless Midwestern farmland, in a metal tube full of farting men on fast food travel rations and all the germs you've picked up from your adoring fans along the way? And that's even if you only hug, shake hands, and sign autographs. If you're enjoying the attentions of the "groupies" then you get a whole other class of problems to concern yourself with. I've been pals with punk-metal-satire-monster band GWAR for the last 12 years or so now. It is inevitable that along the road, somebody is gonna catch a nightmare of a cold or flu, which will wreak havoc on the tour bus for a good month or more. I learned to start eating Airborne like candy for about a week before I saw the guys. Even if it's only a placebo effect for all I know, it seemed to help. Otherwise, I was almost guaranteed to get sick, too.
And we're talking months on the road, with a handful of days off per month.
Of course that's only the tip of the iceberg of the hardships these poor guys have suffered. Including a guitarist getting shot in an attempted carjacking incident and touring with a colostomy bag (Pete Lee), a guitarist dropping dead in his sleep of a heart attack on the bus and being discovered during a border crossing into Canada in 2011 (Cory Smoot), their legendary vocalist dying of a heroin overdose in 2014 (Dave Brockie), a bassist getting testicular cancer (Jamison Land), another guitarist getting bone marrow cancer (Mike Derks)... and assorted mental breakdowns, injuries, strokes, addictions... No, this is not a life I would envy anybody.
I'll take the bodily fluids and poop art of raising a couple of kids, and the horrors of white picket fences, in fact, over this.
If the two have anything in common, in my mind, it's that the ideal of this could wind up being quite different than the reality of this.
In dreaming of having children, does anyone tell a young lady about the sheer volume of bodily fluids involved with birth, babies, small children? The poop-art-incidents?
Does anyone tell aspiring rock musicians about the realities of bumping along through the night, past endless endless Midwestern farmland, in a metal tube full of farting men on fast food travel rations and all the germs you've picked up from your adoring fans along the way? And that's even if you only hug, shake hands, and sign autographs. If you're enjoying the attentions of the "groupies" then you get a whole other class of problems to concern yourself with. I've been pals with punk-metal-satire-monster band GWAR for the last 12 years or so now. It is inevitable that along the road, somebody is gonna catch a nightmare of a cold or flu, which will wreak havoc on the tour bus for a good month or more. I learned to start eating Airborne like candy for about a week before I saw the guys. Even if it's only a placebo effect for all I know, it seemed to help. Otherwise, I was almost guaranteed to get sick, too.
And we're talking months on the road, with a handful of days off per month.
Of course that's only the tip of the iceberg of the hardships these poor guys have suffered. Including a guitarist getting shot in an attempted carjacking incident and touring with a colostomy bag (Pete Lee), a guitarist dropping dead in his sleep of a heart attack on the bus and being discovered during a border crossing into Canada in 2011 (Cory Smoot), their legendary vocalist dying of a heroin overdose in 2014 (Dave Brockie), a bassist getting testicular cancer (Jamison Land), another guitarist getting bone marrow cancer (Mike Derks)... and assorted mental breakdowns, injuries, strokes, addictions... No, this is not a life I would envy anybody.
I'll take the bodily fluids and poop art of raising a couple of kids, and the horrors of white picket fences, in fact, over this.
But I gotta admire the dedication though.
The point is, no matter what other people choose (including rock stars), it should not affect the compass (or provide endorsement) for our own direction in life.
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