F-35 at Luke AFB. Noise Levels? (Scottsdale, Williams: real estate, new home, subdivisions)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Arizona is working hard to attract the F-35 to Luke AFB. We are talking about 8,000 jobs and over $2.5B in revenue to the area each year. Luke is currently the preferred location.

There is a lot of debate as to how loud the new F-35's are. See F-35 recording deafens Val-P meeting | webb, noise, valparaiso - News - Northwest Florida Daily News (http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/webb-17331-noise-valparaiso.html - broken link) . This supplied link claims that the F-35 is 15 decibels louder than the F-16.

Every +6DB doubles the sound pressure level to the ear. According to that link, the F-35 is two-and-a-half times louder (2.5X) than the F-16. Any Luke people on the forum that are in the know? I think I am far enough away so 2.5x will be somewhat annoying but not all that bad. But I have to think there are plenty of people that are not going to appreciate 2.5x the volume. That is going to get very loud for some people closer to Luke.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

By the way, the price per copy has gone up from $89M to $207M per plane. When you consider R&D costs amortized into the plane, it's $304M per plane!!! Yicks!!! I suspect they don't let just anyone fly the F-35!

[Lostone1413]

Always gets me people move next to an Airport then complain about noise. Wonder what they expected or maybe they aren't that sharp

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by Lostone1413

Always gets me people move next to an Airport then complain about noise. Wonder what they expected or maybe they aren't that sharp

In the mid-90s Palm Valley was supposed to expand south of Luke. The AF argued successfully that it was a bad idea, from a noise AND safety standpoint, and the development was curtailed. Will it work again? Who knows, many people come to the new subdivisions' open houses on weekends and see a lone T-38 (relatively quiet aircraft) landing at the base and say "How cool, my kids will love this". While it's easy to say "Hey, there's been an air base right next door since 1942, what were you thinking?", IMO the real culpability lies with developers, real estate speculators, and zoning commissioners who let it happen.

There is a parallel at Scottsdale airport. In the 70s a big fight took place between the airport advocates and the residences, many new, across Scottsdale Road. Again, new homes with complaints. In the end the airport required significant restructuring. This was all in response to the FAA funding for the lengthening of the runway, which would have required that the runway be able to support a DC-9. As soon as the possibility existed for an airliner to land at SDL was made public, the threats came out. (I learned to fly at SDL in 1977, and we had some funny - at the time - traffic patterns to avoid overflight of the homes)

The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) spends a lot of their time lobbying and defending airports from encroachment, yet it doesn't appear the DoD has the same level of support. Encroachment was one of several reasons that Williams AFB on the east side of the valley, which was the busiest military airfield in the free world when it closed, was shut down in the early 90s.

There are a number of studies about the F-35 and F-22 noise contours. The most famous ones which went viral are also the least credible. The F-22 IS louder than an F-15, but what I have discovered is the quality of the noise is different, too.

Where I work now I deal occasionally with noise complaints, both from aircraft and artillery. It never fails to amaze me when I have to field a complaint from someone who built their half-million dollar home within 4 km of the impact area and they don't like the noise.

[wit-nit]

That sound is the sound of 'Freedom', enjoy it.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Lostone1413

Always gets me people move next to an Airport then complain about noise. Wonder what they expected or maybe they aren't that sharp

I did my homework before I purchased. I studied flight patterns, examined SPL levels from various sources etc etc. The published numbers from "reliable sources" were plus 3DB for the F-35 (or 50% increase in SPL). A 50% increase or 3DB is a non-factor for me. I don't think I would bother me even if the volume doubled. I stumbled on that link that said it is 15DB more (or 2.5X). that's a different story. Hence, I was seeing if anyone at Luke was in the know.

I purposely got far enough away to in case the sound pressure level was higher than predicted. But a 250% more isn't subtle.

I do wonder if people who simply post "you moved by an airport" really think before they talk.... Or maybe they just aren't that sharp.

[Ponderosa]

Let someone else enjoy the sound of freedom. The F-35 is just too loud for the developing area around Luke. Close Luke and replace it with a commercial airport.

[Finger Laker]

I don't think anyone can say with any certainty what the sound level is ....... seems to be exaggerated information on both sides of the debate and the one tried and true method hasn't really been done (fly some of them and let people actually hear what it would sound like)

I think Luke is good for the metro, i'd definitely rather live in my proximity to that than a major commercial airport

It's most likely going to be a wait, see & deal with it situation........

I also tend to bristle and bumper sticker slogans like "the sound of freedom" ...... no, it's the sound of a jet - nothing more, nothing less ....... soundbyte society sucks

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

..... no, it's the sound of a jet - nothing more, nothing less ....... soundbyte society sucks

Agreed. That "sound of freedom" cliche is over used.

[wit-nit]

Jets are noisy, tough, Luke has been here since 1941, they are a staple in the valley, they have the right to be where they are, move near there that's your choice, no one forced you, you knew it when you moved there, live with it, get over it, it's gonna be there a long long time.