Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are some really nice areas in South Tempe, you really can't go wrong there. If you are still looking for something like an MPC, Warner Ranch is also called one (it has a community pool, picnic areas/parks) and it's a nice area with good schools as well, and lots of other amenities nearby. A bit closer in than Ocotillo, and also old enough to have big trees and many(if not all) grass yards. A google search brings up lots of links for homes to rent. So, there's two options to look at.
Don't sweat the school thing. If you try and find 'the' perfect school, you'll drive yourself mad! My 14 year old has been in school systems in three countries, in two languages; when he goes to high school this fall, it'll be his 8th school.
This has taught me that as long as we live in a 'nice' area - where other parents' educational values roughly align with ours, college is talked about as a given in the most part, and the expectation is completed homework and good grades - it's always fine.
The other thing I've learned is that most of my child's experience of a school will be based on his/ her interaction with the teacher. It can be the most excelling school imaginable, but if you draw a teacher short straw, that won't make a jot of difference to your kid's experience and progress. One year, my daughter started the year with great teachers - two job sharers, one very experienced, the other more recently qualified but full of good ideas and enthusiasm; the older one was going to specialise in math, the younger in language arts, to suit their skills and passions. It all sounded fabulous. And it was - for about three weeks, when the older one was injured and went on long term sick leave. The younger one added an extra day, and did her best, but was clearly stressed and floundering; the remaining day was picked up by a succession of substitutes, so 20% of the teaching time was effectively just daycare.
These things happen - it was a horrible year in which she learned very little in the classroom, but in the long run, it doesn't really make any difference (she was 6-7; she's now 10). You'll be using the money saved on cheap taxes to support your children at home, enrich their environment, take them on educational outings, book them in for improving extracurriculars, gett your own technology for them to use, arrange tutors for any weaknesses if necessary? If so, it doesn't matter if the schools have iPads or do 2 or 4 field trips a year. Just pick a nice area, with decent homes and like-minded people - control the child's peer group like that so they have friends on the same life path, and it'll all be fine.
The only thing you might want to actively consider is whether you want immersion schooling or not, where a proportion of the school day is spent in Spanish - there are quite a few schools here now that do that (my daughter's elementary is adding it, starting with KG next year), but that'll narrow your area choice more specifically.
@kodokan I love this thank you! My mom said something very similar to me today and to have someone say it that has this actual experience is very helpful so thank you!
We all want the best for our kids so maybe I am over thinking i,t but she is our first so the fact that she is going to school next year is hard enough, then adding a potential move with a different culture is hard so I am trying to make it perfect for her. Truth be told she is a happy, bright and joyful child so this will probably be easier for her than it will be for us!
That being said, are there neighborhoods or Master Planned Communities that you all like in the Chandler or Tempe areas?
Excellent points Kodokan!
mktgmamamn - I am in the same boat you are. Planning relocation in fall this year and have 2 elementary age kids. I was going about my research exactly the way you are (schools top priority). However, after a few months of research, reading this forum and talking to some friends who live in Phoenix area, and learning from our own experience, I have come to a realization that going by the rank of schooldigger is not the right way to do it (that's how I was doing it up until a month ago). Here is my new approach and philosophy:
1) Schools make a difference but to certain extent. Generally, good performing schools mean kids will have good company and will stay challenged. It also means you are in an area where parents are actively involved. Fully agree with Kodokan's arguments around this
2) Need to first short list areas based on our taste and the type of things we like doing, and work commute. The less time we spend on road/traffic, the less stressed out we will be in day to day life, which means more time and mental state to stay involved in our kids education and supporting them to enrich
3) Once 2) is figured out, then focus on schools and perhaps narrow down search to a neighborhood with good assigned school. I am learning that due to open enrollment in AZ, it is not wise to select your home solely based on proximity to a good public school (reading some other threads on this topic you will know that school may decide to bus your kids to another school in future so you lose control)
4) There are good charter schools in most good suburbs in Phoenix area so you can always try your luck there (admission based on lottery if it is a popular school)
We are targeting South Tempe, North Chandler, Central/North Scottsdale areas for now. Will see what is available in these areas when we are ready to sign the lease (planning to rent for a year before buying). So my suggestion to you will be to short list some areas based on everything else and then work on schools. Keep an open mind you go there and things will work out.
Good luck with planning and move. I know it is stressful and confusing at times.
I am learning that due to open enrollment in AZ, it is not wise to select your home solely based on proximity to a good public school (reading some other threads on this topic you will know that school may decide to bus your kids to another school in future so you lose control)
Yes, I read that, but it might just be an isolated case - I've never heard of it happening outside of that example. I've understood it, and had it explained to me (by the office staff in my kids' elementary school, when we were looking at buying out of boundary, after renting in boundary) that if you're in the boundary, then the school has to give you a place, at least unless the boundary gets re-drawn.
They also said that yes, although in theory they don't guarantee a place to a kid each school year if they move out of boundary, in practise they do their best to keep that child in the same school and give them stability. They explained that in 20 years, they couldn't think of an example where a child that was attending their school already was declined a place the following school year because they moved.
Note that this is for 'good' kids - ones who show up, keep their grades up tolerably well, are going to perform adequately on state tests and so on. An out of boundary boy at my son's middle school had a poor 7th grade, with patchy attendance and couple of failing classes, and was told he wasn't being offered a place for 8th grade after all.
mktgmamamn - I'm sure your happy and positive daughter will be fine. I moved mine to another country when she was 4, and she and my then 8 year old son had to go to school in French, a language they didn't speak a word of at the time! Over the years there, I saw many other kids arrive and do the same thing; some of the older ones (10+ or so) struggled a bit, but all the younger ones were universally happy. And then my 7 year old daughter transitioned just fine to the US, even though she had to go in halfway through 2nd grade unable to read and write in English, or barely at all, due to the later start with these things on Continental Europe.
It all turned out great. She's a similar personality to how you describe yours, and each time made new friends and 'loved!' her teacher within days. Kids are marvellously adaptable, as long as their parents are positive and optimistic too.
Incidentally, we're not in a MPC but just a regular neighbourhood; it is, however, still extremely friendly and welcoming. The school offers lots of opportunities for family socials - pool parties (each local middle school has a neighbourhood pool maintained by the city), bring your parent to breakfast sessions, annual carnival, etc. Parents are regularly invited into the classroom to help out with special theme events, or invited on class outings. Many of the kids here walk, bike or scooter to school, collecting their friends along the way; the mums amble along with the youngest ones and chat with their friends.
I don't get nearly as involved in this as I could, because my kids are older (my youngest is 10) and I'm somewhat over that stage of life; I'm now waiting for her to get to middle school and not need taxi-ing/ childcare so that I can study myself, get a job or so on. But the opportunities are definitely there.
Socialising through one's church is also extremely popular here. We're not a religious family so don't use this avenue, but there seems a plethora of choices: I have friends who are in a church social circle that revolves around regular prayer groups, pot luck suppers, and Good Works, and others whose church attendance appears to be a way to organise their drunken camping trips Even though we're not part of their churches, both types of friends invite us to events they're holding, just because we're part of the neighbourhood, and because they're nice people. People are astonishingly friendly here.
In MN, some of the private high schools have over 25% attending the Ivy's and upwards of 90% that get into the top colleges.
I'm sure MN has some amazing schools but a 25% acceptance at the Ivy's is not realistic because even the best private schools in the entire country don't come close to placing 25% of their graduating classes into the Ivy League schools. If you look at some of the best schools in the country like Pinecrest or Phillips Exeter Academy, they don't meet that. I agree that our public schools are not great but our best private schools and charter schools are some of the best in the country. That being said, I am not comfortable with this fact. Our state should invest more in it's schools and everyone should have access to great education.
The school issue on City Data is overblown because most of the people posting questions and seeking schools are educated and appear to be middle class to upper middle class based on their home budget and areas they are choosing to live in. They read here that all the schools are lousy. When they move here, they find great schools for their kids and then realize this was just more of the same negative hyperbole on the Phoenix City Data forum. You're not going to have anything to worry about because you will be able to afford to live in an area that has excellent public or charter schools. And there are many excellent private schools here as well. So access to a great education will not be an issue for you. Just because the many of our public schools are poor, it doesn't mean that you will be denied access to a great education.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 04-01-2014 at 05:56 PM..
I'm sure MN has some amazing schools but a 25% acceptance at the Ivy's is not realistic because even the best private schools in the entire country don't come close to placing 25% of their graduating classes into the Ivy League schools. If you look at some of the best schools in the country like Pinecrest or Phillips Exeter Academy, they don't meet that.
I was thinking the numbers were more impressive than they actually were. I stand corrected. That said, check out this list of MN students (this isn't the best example but it's a typical MN private. http://www.blakeschool.org/data/docu...ge_choices.pdf the small 2012 graduating class includes Dartmouth, Washington University, Stanford, John Hopkins, Carlton College, Brown, Emory, University of Pennsylvania, Harvard, Columbia, Harvey Mudd, etc. Here is the 2013 class http://www.blakeschool.org/data/docu...ge_choices.pdf
MN schools spend around $3K more per pupil. MN also has the highest average ACT score in the USA. Oh, tuition at that school is $25K for HS students. You do get what you pay for.
I agree with you 100% MN-Born-n-Raised but I'm definitely not sending my kids to Blake Just little ol' public Lakeville schools. Again, coming from Iowa, I still feel my kids would get a more quality education with more opportunities than what I even received in Iowa.
I do like everyone's points that if we find a good neighborhood, with good schools and attentive parents that our kids will be in good shape.
Also, it is supposed to snow 8-14 inches this Friday. Definitely over MN winter.
I live in Ocotillo of Chandler. Many of the residents in this area work for Intel as engineers. My two middle-school kids carpool with another two kids from the same neighborhood. Those two families are doctors. As far as I know, all these parents are very involved in their kids' education. The schools around here are highly rated. I feel comfortable by living here and raising my kids. They all have a very clear goal of going to 4-year colleges.
I agree with you 100% MN-Born-n-Raised but I'm definitely not sending my kids to Blake Just little ol' public Lakeville schools. Again, coming from Iowa, I still feel my kids would get a more quality education with more opportunities than what I even received in Iowa.
I do like everyone's points that if we find a good neighborhood, with good schools and attentive parents that our kids will be in good shape.
Also, it is supposed to snow 8-14 inches this Friday. Definitely over MN winter.
Re: funding. There is a lot of debate on this topic but AZ ranks the 3rd lowest in the country. IMHO, that nothing to brag about (nor is it necessarily helpful to spend the most like NY). MN is #30. See Arizona ranks near the bottom for per-pupil spending on grade schools - East Valley Tribune: East Valley Education News which talks about how little AZ spends. Being at the bottom means that that $3K less per student does matter. Specifically addressing Chandler, it's $6,668 per pupil. The state average is $7,475 while the national average is $10,652. So Chandler spends less that the state average yet their test scores are higher. That's because more parents in Chandler have higher expectations than say Surprise where I live.
With that said, you just need to be more active. In healthcare for instance, your quality of care skyrockets when you or someone else is actively involved with the doctors at an average hospital. In public education, it's the same thing. Know who the better teachers are and request them. Aim for your kids to get into the top math, reading (and later advanced classes) so they are with the more motivated students. That means working with them so they master the material so they get in with the better motivated students. Volunteer when you can in the school so you get your unfair mind share. When that occurs, it doesn't matter if 28% of the kids drop out. Your children are with the kids that are kicking butt. Know who their friends are and immediately sort out the bad apples.
Our kids went to Anoka. Some school snobs would pooh-pooh that entire district. Frankly, our average test scores were below the Chandler high schools. So there were many kids in the Anoka district that simply didn't care. But my kids didn't take classes with them. So on paper, the averages for our kids high school was terrible. For instance, only 70% of the kids passed the reading proficiency test in high school (87% in Chandler HS). Yet my son in 11th and 12th grade was a college tutor for chemistry, calc, and biology and tested in the top 1/2 percent on some of the standardized chemistry tests. All the while 30% of his class body could not read very well. My daughter is going to dental school to become a dentist here in AZ which is a tough program to get into. Boiled down, your family culture has a lot to do with how your kids perform. Spending $3K more per pupil does very little for the slackers but is a big deal for the kids who are motivated. So long as you have a large subset of motivated families in a school, those kids will rise to the top and compete with the best kids in other higher ranked districts. You get into trouble when there isn't enough quality family cultures and teachers babysit versus teach. Chandler certainly passes this last important point.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 04-03-2014 at 07:42 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). Here is my new approach and philosophy:
