Let's talk about solar power... (Phoenix, Peoria: property tax, exemption, costs)

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by kell490

I can guarantee the next rate case which is 2016 they will try very hard to add a connect fee to grid tie which will be much higher then $5 I think $100 per month. They feel that revenue based on usage is not working [...]

This is a big stumbling block for me. I'm not going to make a large investment, only to be at the mercy of the utility regulators. The only type of solar investment I'll make is one that's not connected to the grid. It may not make much economic sense now... but maybe someday.

hikernut

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I just wrapped up my first on-site estimate from a local company. Unfortunately their salesman wasn't very good and I don't even know if I can trust his information but he gave me two quotes with panels/inverters that I've never heard of, though I have no experience with this so that doesn't mean much.

The first was a 10.6kW system using 40 Sun Edison panels and a Fronius inverter. The price was $43,000 (before credits) and he said it included an electrical panel change which will be necessary according to him. We have a 200 AMP panel and he said we'll need a 400 AMP panel, does that sound correct?

The second was a 10.5kW system using 42 Canadian Solar panels and also a Fornius inverter. Price was $33,000 (before credits) and also included the upgraded panel change. Obviously much better price, but he didn't know the model numbers of the panels or inverters.

Any input on those?

That's a big system. Do you really need that many KWs? Also, is your south/west facing roof big enough? - That was my biggest problem. I find the price relatively high for a roof-mounted system, given you can get the parts probably for less than 20k online.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by lewdog_5

Update from me on the different between Solar city and APS solar generation numbers. I emailed APS last week and got a call back today. Talk about surprising.

She stated that the different in credited solar (799 kWh) and what the solar city said it is producing (1000 kWh) is that the 201 kWh missing are because that is the total electricity we used during the month while the solar was producing during the day. APS only gets what is sent back to them that wasn't used at the time of solar generated power. So that's good news on my end.

That's interesting, so the system directly feeds power to the house while it's producing, simultaneously?

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by hikernut

This is a big stumbling block for me. I'm not going to make a large investment, only to be at the mercy of the utility regulators. The only type of solar investment I'll make is one that's not connected to the grid. It may not make much economic sense now... but maybe someday.

hikernut

Well, you could always take it off the grid in the future I suppose if it really came to that.

Either way, it would probably still be much cheaper than whatever the rate will be for regular customers.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

That's a big system. Do you really need that many KWs? Also, is your south/west facing roof big enough? - That was my biggest problem. I find the price relatively high for a roof-mounted system, given you can get the parts probably for less than 20k online.

We used around 21,000 kWh per year so we need about a 12 kW system if we want 100% coverage.

This is one mockup of the layout we can have which would be a 12.4kW system using 38 327W panels.
Due to the neighbor's stupid two story house south of us, we can't use the majority of the south facing roof.

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

That's interesting, so the system directly feeds power to the house while it's producing, simultaneously?

Yes it does and that's why it is soooo confusing. You don't know anymore how much electricity you are using (total). You only know what you are using from APS. And now that APS changed the solar meters it's even more impossible to make sense of things. Frankly I think it's done on purpose. They don't want you to understand.

[lewdog_5]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

That's interesting, so the system directly feeds power to the house while it's producing, simultaneously?

Yes...see below.

Originally Posted by MalteseJane

Yes it does and that's why it is soooo confusing. You don't know anymore how much electricity you are using (total). You only know what you are using from APS. And now that APS changed the solar meters it's even more impossible to make sense of things. Frankly I think it's done on purpose. They don't want you to understand.

Yea, which is why I had to call. And yup, you really can't tell what you're using total with this setup. Kind of annoying.

[Juram]

Originally Posted by hikernut

This is a big stumbling block for me. I'm not going to make a large investment, only to be at the mercy of the utility regulators. The only type of solar investment I'll make is one that's not connected to the grid. It may not make much economic sense now... but maybe someday.

hikernut

Once you've installed you're basically grandfathered for a period of 20 years. APS can change that policy in the future, but it would still only apply to new adopters. For my system, as long as I own the home, any new fee's won't apply. Now if I move and sell my home, whoever happens to buy it would be subject to whatever the current fee's and regulations happen to be.

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Juram

Once you've installed you're basically grandfathered for a period of 20 years. APS can change that policy in the future, but it would still only apply to new adopters. For my system, as long as I own the home, any new fee's won't apply. Now if I move and sell my home, whoever happens to buy it would be subject to whatever the current fee's and regulations happen to be.

Sure, I got your point. You are fine. Anyone who is looking at buying/leasing today... who knows? At any rate, one cannot expect to build a sustainable industry on tax credits and rules that can change from year to year. PV is good enough today, in my opinion, that smart people can figure out ways to put it to good use. Get the govt. out of the loop and let the markets work.

FWIW, I did find something online that's close to what I described earlier. It's a 1-1/3 ton system running on 48V DC. The website says it can be powered by 1kW of panels.

hikernut

[HX_Guy]

So I received the proposals from the different companies. The system sized are all over the place because some companies quoted to cover 100% of usage, others 85%-90% and others just enough to cover on-peak usage.

Off the bat the Company 6 proposal using the Canadian Solar seems great and pretty shocking price wise. I understand Canadian Solar is a decent panel too.

Seems like I should disregard the Hanwha, LG and Hyundai panels as for the price I can get equal or better. Any other thoughts or input? Thanks.