Will Phoenix ever build a subway system? (Maricopa: live in, costs)

[gwillyfromphilly]

Hi everyone! This is a continuation of the popular subway series I have been doing for a while on city-data. Despite Phoenix being the 6th largest city in the country, it does not have a subway system like other large cities such as Chicago and Philadelphia. With Phoenix being among the fastest growing in the country, do you think Phoenix will ever build a subway system? If so, when?

[wit-nit]

No the costs outweigh the benefits. Phoenix and surrounding areas are looking to expand the light rail system across the valley. That's the transportation dept(s) plans for the future.

[Bondurant]

No. Light rail is expensive enough. Imagine the cost of going underground.

[kell490]

The cost of a subway is way too much for city's here all we need is freeways that are wide enough. I could understand it where city's are compacted into small areas with 10+ floor buildings is the norm.

Maricopa County is larger then the state of New Jersey

State of New Jersey 8,729 sq miles
Maricopa County 9,224 sq miles
State of Arizona 113,998 sq miles

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by kell490

Maricopa County is larger then the state of New Jersey

New Jersey 8,729 sq miles
Maricopa County 9,224 sq miles
State of Arizona 113,998 sq miles

The cost of a subway is way too much for city's here all we need is freeways that are wide enough.

You can only build so much freeways before traffic starts to become unbearable. Eventually you're going to need huge investments in mass transit infrastructure. Have you forgotten that Phoenix is one of the most populated cities in the country and has been growing at a very fast rate over the past few decades?

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

You can only build so much freeways before traffic starts to become unbearable. Eventually you're going to need huge investments in mass transit infrastructure. Have you forgotten that Phoenix is one of the most populated cities in the country and has been growing at a very fast rate over the past few decades?

"Investments", eh? There will never be a subway here. The light rail is already costing enough.

How could anyone that lives here not know it's one of the most populated metro areas and has been growing? It is, however, also very spread out.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

"Investments", eh? There will never be a subway here. The light rail is already costing enough.

How could anyone that lives here not know it's one of the most populated metro areas and has been growing? It is, however, also very spread out.

There are some people who live in cities and are completely unaware how populated it is.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

You can only build so much freeways before traffic starts to become unbearable. Eventually you're going to need huge investments in mass transit infrastructure. Have you forgotten that Phoenix is one of the most populated cities in the country and has been growing at a very fast rate over the past few decades?

Your original question isn't about mass transit. You specify subway. Why do you choose to ignore other options (monorail, light rail, commuter rail, etc.)?

[beTucsonan]

This would just be a bad plan - there's an appeal to subways that's somewhat inherent to Americans because we look back at places like New York City and think "wow, that's great." But the facts don't bear that fascination out into reality for most places since, as has been mentioned, the costs far outweigh the benefits.

Phoenix may be large, well populated, and growing quickly, but that doesn't have anything to do with the efficacy of a subway system. Phoenix is, besides those things, also very spread out and the cost of reaching the areas it would need to reach would be astronomical - to say "billions" wouldn't even do it justice since it would not be 1, 2 or even 5 or 10 billion, but much more.

I spent nearly 5 years working on various rail and subway programs across the globe and I can tell you the cost is hundreds of millions of dollars per mile of track for a subway. It just isn't feasible, nor would it be effective if Phoenix was to build a small, "downtown" subway as is sometimes suggested, since those types of systems tend to see little use (reference Pittsburgh's system where the subway is very small, and the light rail only goes to the Southern suburbs ... it's a financial nightmare for the city).

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Your original question isn't about mass transit. You specify subway. Why do you choose to ignore other options (monorail, light rail, commuter rail, etc.)?

Subway systems are the pinnacle of mass transit efficiency for cities. Phoenix is a large city, so I can't help but compare it to other large cities with subway systems.