Illegal Immigrants (Phoenix, Scottsdale: how much, hotel, to buy)

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by ji603

Roads, police, fire - none of which they pay a dime for...

Aren't a lot of these funded from sales/gas taxes?

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

And also, should the illegal immigrants be blamed or the people hiring their services?

I would say both. It takes 2 to tango.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by ji603

If you mean to tell me that illegal immigrant third worlders sneaking into this country are a positive net result for those of us who came to the USA legally, then an Arizona thread started by an Illinois transplant to Colorado is as good a place as any in which to disagree, I guess.

47% of tax return filers owed no income tax. Ergo, they cost more (the remaining 53% of the folks in this here lifeboat chipped in to cover them) than they produce. Poorly educated third worlders with larger families than is common in the US today cost more than they produce.

Schools.
WIC/SNAP/school lunch
Hospitals
Social services
Roads, police, fire - none of which they pay a dime for...

The open borders crowd will bleat, " they pay taxes, pathway to citizenship, out of the shadows, etc etc but I know that until a family of 4 makes more than 75k a year, their tax liability is 0. Make less, and ol uncle Sam will actually pay YOU.

Imagine that. Sneak into a country, put your kids in its schools, take advantage of its streets, garbage, parks, social services, justice system, hospitals, generosity of most of its residents... And when you take a job from an American, file a tax return with a TIN, and more money falls in your lap.

No wonder the flood continues.

If you're referring to the Earned Income Credit (and it sounds like you are), ITIN filers without a matching SSN do not qualify for it:

If a primary taxpayer, spouse, or both have ITINs, they are ineligible to receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), even if their dependents have valid SSNs. If the taxpayer and spouse (if filing jointly) have valid SSNs, only dependents with valid SSNs – not ITINs – qualify to receive EITC.

Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) Reminders for Tax Professionals

As for blaming the employers who hire the illegals, if it's the same way in PHX that it is up here, it's often the business owner operating under an ITIN (and no SSN) who hires the illegals.

I thought AZ required all employers to use the e-Verify system, or is that just applied to employers with government contracts and/or a minimum sales threshold?

[West Phx Native]

Lets see, Illegals flood the emergency rooms looking for free treatment,
they flood the school with kids who do not want to learn english and become part of this country,
they want us to learn their language instead of learning english.
They cause our kids not to a better education because of time lost in the classroom because of the non english speakers.

We are too nice to illegals, they should be treated the same way as mexico treats those that cross their southern border, jail, deportation. mexico can use their military on the border, we should as well.

I am 2nd generation American, when my dad's parents came here from Germany, they came thru Ellis Island, they had to have a job, money or a sponsor, if they did not have those, they were not allowed in, if they were sick, they were not allowed in, they were proud to be here, they learned english, they became Americans, and if you asked them what they were, they answered Americans, not German-Americans.

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by Gixxer1K

From what I see and people I've talked to especially in construction I believe they're the reason for the sub-par wages here ...

I disagree. The reason for subpar wages here in Arizona is the lack of an influence from labor unions. Arizona is one of the wrongly named "right to work" states, which in my opinion should be called "right to make the boss rich" states.

In areas with a history of labor strength, salaries are higher, not just for labor union members, but EVERYONE. Ever hear the expression "a rising tide lifts all boats"? True in this case. When I was a recent college grad I was chosen for a professional position with a Fortune 100 company located in Pittsburgh. I wanted the job badly and knew nothing about salary negotiating, so I took the job at the salary they offered.

I did well and was promoted to a job in a different division of the company. As soon as I got there, my new manager verified my salary with me in a puzzled way. When I told her the figure she had was correct, she said, "Honey, my secretary makes more than that!" At my next salary review, she got me what I thought of as a huge raise. (It at least got me up to a professional level, by Pittsburgh standards, which is about three times higher than here.) Her secretary made more than I did because secretaries in the company's union shops had salaries negotiated by the union, just as the workers on the shop floor did. Our secretaries at HQ were put into the same system.

As a result of union influence, all secretaries were decently paid. Being a good secretary at this company was a secure, career-type position. Those employees were valued by the company and kept their jobs, often for their entire career. And I never saw any bosses at that place going broke because union workers were taking away their profits. Union workers were just getting a FAIR SHARE of the profits.

I don't see anything like that in Arizona. People change jobs constantly, searching for tiny raises. Moving from place to place is about the only way to get them. Lower-level positions are disrespected. Companies know their employees are not likely to remain in place for long, so they see no reason to give them continuing training. It's a vicious cycle.

Look at a place like Las Vegas where, thanks to a union, a hotel, casino, or restaurant jobs can be something to be proud of and something that can provide support to a family in decent housing. Fairly paid workers strengthen society. Well-paid support personnel were once the backbone of the American middle class, something that's disappearing quickly in these days of greed where labor unions are touted by many as a scourge of the economy.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by yukon

If you're referring to the Earned Income Credit (and it sounds like you are), ITIN filers without a matching SSN do not qualify for it:

He might have gotten one bullet wrong. The rest of them are spot on.

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

I disagree. The reason for subpar wages here in Arizona is the lack of an influence from labor unions.

Phoenix trade wages are dragged down because of illegals. That's not for debate. Just look at any crew that is working on a tract housing development. There are very few English speaking workers on the job site. It's easier to compete when you don't worry about medical insurance (I pay $6000 for a year for my wife and I with a $4500 a year deductible) and pay zero AZ work comp insurance.

At the end of the day, I also benefit from lower labor costs. In one small example, I pay $40 a time to mow my grass and trim my trees. I haven't seen a white or Asian landscaper worker ever out of the dozens of crews circling around my Surprise neighborhood.

Hence, I would not want to be a worker in the trades nor would I want to own a family landscaping business here in Phoenix. Yet both careers make a living wage in many other states in America.

[jdahunt]

Unions don't guarantee you a good wage.....in some areas such as Illinois, Chicago specifically it may help in the short term but now that its bankrupting all entities there are major give backs going on.

The free market will pay what it makes sense to pay, artificially going above that for whatever reason won't be sustainable in the long run.

The rates I pay in Arizona are substancially lower than I pay here in Illinois for things such as house cleaning, pool service and landscaping...its not rocket science why.

The big union leadership supports amnesty simply because it pads their wallets with collect dues, but their members will literally pay the price for it...simple economics..the larger the pool of workers the lower the compensation employers can demand.

[aboveordinary]

Immigrants tend to be scape goats for the country's problems. A lot of people are just paranoid and feel everyone that isn't white is out to get them. It's ignorance mostly.

[azriverfan.]

There is a lot of hypocrisy regarding illegal immigration in Arizona. So many entities profit from illegals. The construction industry alone has made millions hiring illegals. The hospitality, and food industry has also profited. Thousands of people in the Valley hire illegals to do their landscaping. Even "legal" landscaping companies hire illegals and then provide the impression that they are a legitimate organization. I didn't see many complaining about illegal immigration in the 90's and early 2000's. The reason why is the times were good. People were happy and they didn't need to find a convenient scapegoat to point the finger at. The anti-immigration movement really became inflamed during the recession when they were made to be the scapegoat for our economic woes. When in reality, the reason for our poor economy had to do with our lack of a diversified economy and too much reliance upon housing and construction.

In short, people want enough illegal immigration to make money off them but they don't want too much to where it exhausts our resources. No one is going to come out and say that but that's what they are thinking.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by yukon

If you're referring to the Earned Income Credit (and it sounds like you are), ITIN filers without a matching SSN do not qualify for it:

If a primary taxpayer, spouse, or both have ITINs, they are ineligible to receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), even if their dependents have valid SSNs. If the taxpayer and spouse (if filing jointly) have valid SSNs, only dependents with valid SSNs – not ITINs – qualify to receive EITC.

Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) Reminders for Tax Professionals

As for blaming the employers who hire the illegals, if it's the same way in PHX that it is up here, it's often the business owner operating under an ITIN (and no SSN) who hires the illegals.

I thought AZ required all employers to use the e-Verify system, or is that just applied to employers with government contracts and/or a minimum sales threshold?

I heard that eVerify is actually not working very exact either. There seem to be ways to game the system as well.