Moving to Phoenix Q&A (Scottsdale, Gilbert: HOA, new home, scorpion)

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by _Mario

Well ir would be a 300k upgrade for me, so yeah...those aren't low wages. I know overall the city has lower wages than lets say LA or NY. But at the same time, housing is cheaper and there is extra money in my pocket.

A $300k raise? You should be here on the next flight!

[JTW2013]

Originally Posted by _Mario

Well ir would be a 300k upgrade for me, so yeah...those aren't low wages. I know overall the city has lower wages than lets say LA or NY. But at the same time, housing is cheaper and there is extra money in my pocket.

Hmmmm....trying to think which profession would pay $300K MORE in Phoenix than anywhere else. Or any job anywhere that would result in a $300K promotion.

[WriterDude]

Originally Posted by JTW2013

I'm confused. Are you saying that you want to move to Phoenix so you can make more money? We're not in Phoenix yet but ISTM that wages are pretty low there. At least compared to what we are used to in Chicago. I'm being transferred but my DH will need to find a job in Phoenix and we've already accepted the fact that he will earn less in Phoenix.

For a household, the money you "make" is the net income after fixed expenses.

So think of it for an imaginary person named Joe. Let's say Joe makes $100k in Chicago. Joe's withholding is about $30k. Joe's state taxes (at the IL 5% rate) are $5k. Joe's mortgage and fixed expenses total about $3,500/mo. Joe's property tax assessment on his $400k home is something - I couldn't figure out the property tax rates.

His overall Illinois take-home is $100k - $30k - $42k - something. Let's say he has about $20k in annual take-home disposable income. That's subject to the generally higher cost of living in the Chicago area.

In Arizona, let's say he makes $70k. His overall withholding is about $21k. Note that the withholding is going to be less, too - state taxes alone are going to be about half what he was paying in Illinois - let's say he opts for the 3.6% rate, or $2,520. His mortgage and utilities might be similar, but he can buy way more house here for less, or the same house for WAY less, so let's say his mortgage and utilities are $2,500.

His overall Arizona take-home is $70k - $21k - $30k - something. Let's say he has about $19k in annual take-home disposable income. Wait, that's LESS disposable income than Chicago! However, the cost of living here is about 30% less than there, so that $19k has 30% more buying power, or almost $25k.

These are all round terms, but that's the logic. You can make $30k less and wind up ahead, with a nicer house. Of course, there are also cultural differences between the cities, and Chicago has world class institutions, but every family has to decide for themselves if they really spend that much time at the Art Institute of Chicago, or staring at the Bean.

Plus we have nicer sunsets.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by WriterDude

For a household, the money you "make" is the net income after fixed expenses.

So think of it for an imaginary person named Joe. Let's say Joe makes $100k in Chicago. Joe's withholding is about $30k. Joe's state taxes (at the IL 5% rate) are $5k. Joe's mortgage and fixed expenses total about $3,500/mo. Joe's property tax assessment on his $400k home is something - I couldn't figure out the property tax rates.

His overall Illinois take-home is $100k - $30k - $42k - something. Let's say he has about $20k in annual take-home disposable income. That's subject to the generally higher cost of living in the Chicago area.

In Arizona, let's say he makes $70k. His overall withholding is about $21k. Note that the withholding is going to be less, too - state taxes alone are going to be about half what he was paying in Illinois - let's say he opts for the 3.6% rate, or $2,520. His mortgage and utilities might be similar, but he can buy way more house here for less, or the same house for WAY less, so let's say his mortgage and utilities are $2,500.

His overall Arizona take-home is $70k - $21k - $30k - something. Let's say he has about $19k in annual take-home disposable income. Wait, that's LESS disposable income than Chicago! However, the cost of living here is about 30% less than there, so that $19k has 30% more buying power, or almost $25k.

These are all round terms, but that's the logic. You can make $30k less and wind up ahead, with a nicer house. Of course, there are also cultural differences between the cities, and Chicago has world class institutions, but every family has to decide for themselves if they really spend that much time at the Art Institute of Chicago, or staring at the Bean.

Plus we have nicer sunsets.

Or just move here and get a $300k raise.

[WriterDude]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Or just move here and get a $300k raise.

Well, natch... every time I've had a $300k raise, my income has... oh, wait, never mind. ;-)

I was sure that was a typo - I'd guess that the only way that would be realistic is if you were paid in Monopoly money or "air quote dollars" or something.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by WriterDude

Of course, there are also cultural differences between the cities, and Chicago has world class institutions, but every family has to decide for themselves if they really spend that much time at the Art Institute of Chicago, or staring at the Bean.

Plus we have nicer sunsets.

Im an ex-Illinoisan, from the Chicago burbs. I love living in AZ, but theres soooooo much more that Chicagoland has that I took for granted while I lived there. The food! Oh my, the food is infinitely more varied and better in Chicagoland than the Valley. Transportation. Want to head to a Hawks/Bulls/Bears game? Take the train from virtually any suburb. Cant do that here and it sucks! Architecture. Whether its homes or business, your eyes never get tired, theres ALWAYS something cool looking to admire, design-wise. Water. Nothing better than grabbing the fishing poles and literally being able to walk (in most areas) to a nearby stream, lake, river, or pond, to go fishing. Here you gotta drive long distances to stand along a shade-less, blistering hot, rocky shore. No comparison. Cultural opportunities. Wanna go to Chinatown? Little Warsaw? You can do that in Chicago. Here its, uh, Little Guadalajara, thats about it. Sports? Once again nothing here in the Valley can compare... U of P Stadium is awesome, but doesnt scream "football" like outdoor stadiums do.

[WriterDude]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Im an ex-Illinoisan, from the Chicago burbs. I love living in AZ, but theres soooooo much more that Chicagoland has that I took for granted while I lived there.

Absolutely. I would never pretend the Phoenix metro compares with the metroplexes in terms of cultural opportunities. You'd have similar limitations if you'd gone to almost any Phoenix-sized metro area. You're stepping from a national/international scope to a regional scope. I was born in rural Michigan, where everybody walks to evening softball games and aspires to win a 4-H ribbon or the tractor pull at the county fair. There are charms to that life, as well.

Then there are unique physical attractions for various areas. From the SF Bay Area, you can day-trip to Napa, Monterey, even Yosemite Valley if you get up early. That's one reason I don't emphasize what makes a place unique, either. El Capitan in afternoon light can't be compared to, well, anything. Sedona's red hills can't be compared to, well, anything. And I think places like Monument Valley, or Paris, or Marin are absolutely beautiful, but they don't create a reason that I must live there. If I lived there, I'd appreciate their presence, just like I appreciate so much of the Arizona landscape because I live here.

Nowadays, when I drive to California, I note when saguaro ends (this side of state line) as the point where my Arizona landscape changes. That's because I'm more Arizona than California at this point. :-)

[_Mario]

By 300k more, I think most of you guys misunderstood me. I meant I will make 300k. Which is a huge house in AZ.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by _Mario

By 300k more, I think most of you guys misunderstood me. I meant I will make 300k. Which is a huge house in AZ.

A $300k salary is pretty solid anywhere. In Phoenix you'll be doing very well.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by WriterDude

Absolutely. I would never pretend the Phoenix metro compares with the metroplexes in terms of cultural opportunities. You'd have similar limitations if you'd gone to almost any Phoenix-sized metro area. You're stepping from a national/international scope to a regional scope. I was born in rural Michigan, where everybody walks to evening softball games and aspires to win a 4-H ribbon or the tractor pull at the county fair. There are charms to that life, as well.

Then there are unique physical attractions for various areas. From the SF Bay Area, you can day-trip to Napa, Monterey, even Yosemite Valley if you get up early. That's one reason I don't emphasize what makes a place unique, either. El Capitan in afternoon light can't be compared to, well, anything. Sedona's red hills can't be compared to, well, anything. And I think places like Monument Valley, or Paris, or Marin are absolutely beautiful, but they don't create a reason that I must live there. If I lived there, I'd appreciate their presence, just like I appreciate so much of the Arizona landscape because I live here.

Nowadays, when I drive to California, I note when saguaro ends (this side of state line) as the point where my Arizona landscape changes. That's because I'm more Arizona than California at this point. :-)

Agreed.

AZ's landscape is far better than IL's in my book. Theres no denying the beauty of this place. Its rugged, tough, brutal, and I love it. But Phoenix and its burbs are far below Chicago's, in areas I mentioned above. Scottsdale is a great city, I adore it. Same goes for Fountain Hills and Carefree, but outside of those burbs, the rest of PHX's satellites are just so... blah.