Another Phoenix bus strike looming (Transdev-Phoenix North and South Divisions) (contractor, tax)

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

This is the problem right here: employees who already have decent salaries & good benefits, and aren't satisfied with what they have. As a result, they'll go on strike, disrupt service, and inconvenience many people for their own self absorbed demands until they get their way. Labor unions have basically become corrupt, and serve no real purpose nowadays other than being apologists & defenders of mediocre workers who really don't deserve extra pay or benefits.

There have been too many bus strikes (or threats of strikes) in Phoenix lately. Phoenix is located in a state which is solidly right to work and resistant to unions. Therefore, it's high time to eliminate the union presence from these transit operations, or any public service for that matter. Walking off the job and going on strike is one thing, but it's another thing to inconvenience the people who depend on bus service for their everyday commute, and leave them stranded. That's BEYOND greedy! It's more on the lines of criminal in my opinion.

I also agree the strikes are complete BS. At the some time though I'm all for fighting the right to work state status (more like right to get treated like a slave and fired for no reason)
. It seems that all the employers treat employees like $hit in our state due to that.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by elcajones

I also agree the strikes are complete BS. At the some time though I'm all for fighting the right to work state status (more like right to get treated like a slave and fired for no reason)

"Right to work" has nothing to do with "employment at will" which is what you are referring to there. Right to work means the right to not join a union as a condition of employment.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Looks like the strike is official as of today:
Phoenix bus strike: What you need to know

This will hurt riders in eastern and central Phoenix, as well as the east-west routes in northern Phoenix.

Wonderful! The strike just happens to be taking place during some big events downtown, and at UOP Stadium. Great sense of timing, union a**holes! But then again, they don't care about the people who depend on the buses ... they only care about their own greedy, selfish demands.
()

Originally Posted by coffeerox

lazy bastards. It's becoming an effort to count the amount of times they've went on strike for more pay and more benefits. Seems like it's never enough for them and service never gets any better. I still remember the time I got kicked off of the bus in 2008 for being the last person in line even though I was the first to arrive at that stop. And the other time where I got yelled at by a bus driver b/c I was talking to my friend about times when they were late (she later banned me from all her routes). Let me tell you what they need to do. Fire all striking employees and institute a policy that no unions can be formed and strikes cannot be conducted.

Absolutely right on the seemingly continuous bus strikes, and how they're never satisfied with what they have already. With Arizona being a right to work state, this usually translates to fewer unions ... or at least, less of an influence from unions. Even with that, there have been a frequent amount of transit strikes during the last few years. Again, the bus riders are the ones who are left out in the cold, but the striking drivers and the pro union crowd don't give a damn about them!

I wasn't there to witness what happened with you being kicked off the bus, and/or banned from certain bus routes ... however, that kind of thing shouldn't be happening (unless you were being excessively rude, loud, or threatening). You are a taxpayer who supports the transit system through your taxes, and your fares as well. Basically, the bus drivers work for the public. We are their employers ... they are not the bosses over you.

Originally Posted by stevek64

Perhaps the lesson here is for these employees to not be in a union if they aren't benefiting from it if what you say is true that non-union employees are doing better?

Very true! I guess I have what could be called a "cushy office job", but I worked hard to get where I am, and continue to work hard for my salary & benefits. I'm not wealthy, but I'm satisfied with what I have. The bus drivers may not have a cushy job, so to speak, but they are there to provide a service and get compensation for it. Walking off the job and going on strike is the same as violating their job duties as far as I'm concerned. Too bad the Mayor or the Governor can't do what President Reagan did in 1981: he ordered the striking air traffic controllers back to work, or they would be fired. They continued to strike, and Reagan made good on his threat.

[observer53]

They actually aren't striking over pay, but other issues. Seems like something that both sides ought to be able to resolve.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

They actually aren't striking over pay, but other issues. Seems like something that both sides ought to be able to resolve.

Yep, and these are in fact the highest paid drivers in the Valley; the First Transit-Phoenix West drivers, as well as the First Transit-RPTA drivers in the East Valley based out of Tempe and Mesa and the Valu Trans drivers for the West Valley Express routes based out of Glendale are paid less on average.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Looks like the strike is official as of today:
Phoenix bus strike: What you need to know

This will hurt riders in eastern and central Phoenix, as well as the east-west routes in northern Phoenix.

I’m not very familiar with the Phoenix bus system, so maybe I’m missing something. But from reading that article it sounds like they have a terrible plan for dealing with this. Why don’t they just redistribute the busses they have operating, across the entire system?

If Saturday service is 60% of normal, and if they have enough drivers to operate 60% of the busses, they should just run the entire system on a Saturday schedule. Rather then not providing service to entire sections of the city. If they don’t have enough drivers to operate 60% they could operate all routes on a Sunday schedule. If they have less drivers then that, they should probably just concentrate on operating the main routes at full service, and let people walk to main routes. At least hopefully everybody would be with in walking distance, of an operating route, even if it might be a long walk.

If they can get enough service operating, they can just wait out the strikers. After a month or two of not being able to pay their bills, these guys will be begging to come back to work.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

I’m not very familiar with the Phoenix bus system, so maybe I’m missing something. But from reading that article it sounds like they have a terrible plan for dealing with this. Why don’t they just redistribute the busses they have operating, across the entire system?

If Saturday service is 60% of normal, and if they have enough drivers to operate 60% of the busses, they should just run the entire system on a Saturday schedule. Rather then not providing service to entire sections of the city. If they don’t have enough drivers to operate 60% they could operate all routes on a Sunday schedule. If they have less drivers then that, they should probably just concentrate on operating the main routes at full service, and let people walk to main routes. At least hopefully everybody would be with in walking distance, of an operating route, even if it might be a long walk.

If they can get enough service operating, they can just wait out the strikers. After a month or two of not being able to pay their bills, these guys will be begging to come back to work.

The transit system here in the Phoenix area is fragmented, with different agencies and contractors providing service in different areas in the Valley. Phoenix actually has two separate contracts: Transdev for the North and South Divisions mostly serving eastern, central, and northern Phoenix, and First Transit for the West Division mostly serving western Phoenix. First Transit drivers are not allowed to operate Transdev routes or vice versa.

However, occasionally some routes do get reassigned; for example the I-10 West Rapid used to be under First Transit, but was later reassigned to Veolia/Transdev (specifically the South Division).

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The transit system here in the Phoenix area is fragmented, with different agencies and contractors providing service in different areas in the Valley. Phoenix actually has two separate contracts: Transdev for the North and South Divisions mostly serving eastern, central, and northern Phoenix, and First Transit for the West Division mostly serving western Phoenix. First Transit drivers are not allowed to operate Transdev routes or vice versa.

However, occasionally some routes do get reassigned; for example the I-10 West Rapid used to be under First Transit, but was later reassigned to Veolia/Transdev (specifically the South Division).

I think they should be looking at how the Regional Transportation District in Denver handled their strike in 2006. A that time the district bus drivers in Denver went on strike, but their contract bus drivers working for First Transit, Laidlaw and Connex continued to work.

First Transit drivers were unionized, so they could only continue operating their own routes. But the Laidlaw and Connex drivers were non-union, and they operated lower ridership suburban routes. So they moved those non-union drivers from the suburban routes to the major bus routes to keep most of the system operating.

With that plan they were able to brake the strike in one week. Which was a big improvement over the strike they had in 1982 when I lived in Denver. At that time they had no contractors, so the entire system was shut down for five weeks. But eventually the workers had to start paying their bills, so they went back to work.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The transit system here in the Phoenix area is fragmented, with different agencies and contractors providing service in different areas in the Valley. Phoenix actually has two separate contracts: Transdev for the North and South Divisions mostly serving eastern, central, and northern Phoenix, and First Transit for the West Division mostly serving western Phoenix. First Transit drivers are not allowed to operate Transdev routes or vice versa.

However, occasionally some routes do get reassigned; for example the I-10 West Rapid used to be under First Transit, but was later reassigned to Veolia/Transdev (specifically the South Division).

The person who asked the question may not care about the details, but First Transit operates routes on the east side as well, lots of them. (Think of all the east side routes that are NOT affected by this strike, local and express and circulator) It really is a fragmented system without clear borders, probably best to just say there's more than one company, more than one contract.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by observer53

The person who asked the question may not care about the details, but First Transit operates routes on the east side as well, lots of them. (Think of all the east side routes that are NOT affected by this strike, local and express and circulator) It really is a fragmented system without clear borders, probably best to just say there's more than one company, more than one contract.

So operation of Phoenix’s transits system is contracted to two companies, both represented by the Amalgamated Transit Union?

I think I answered my own question. When looking at information about the Denver strike, it said that First Transit being union represented could only operate their own routes. So they used the non-union contractors to fill in on the routes that were impacted by the strike. I would guess, that thats the same reason that First Transit in Phoenix is not filling in for the disrupted Transdev routes.

Which is interesting to me. Because back in the 1980s when I first started hearing about plans to contract public bus service to private companies in various cities, the main argument I heard, was that it would save money by using non-union drivers and eliminate disruptions by strikes. That seems to have been a broken promise. Since it seems that all the private contractors are now represented by the same union they were suppose to eliminate.

It really should be put right in the contracts, that both companies need to cover each others routes in the event of a strike by one or the other, to avoid disruptions to the public.