Another Phoenix bus strike looming (Transdev-Phoenix North and South Divisions) (Scottsdale: wage, transit)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

The person who asked the question may not care about the details, but First Transit operates routes on the east side as well, lots of them. (Think of all the east side routes that are NOT affected by this strike, local and express and circulator) It really is a fragmented system without clear borders, probably best to just say there's more than one company, more than one contract.

Note that the East Valley contract under First Transit is still a separate contract from the one for the Phoenix West Division. The former is contracted by the RPTA, while the latter is contracted by the City of Phoenix. Still, you are correct about that there are no clear borders, as some routes by one operator may cross into an area that is dominated by another. Even some of the East Valley First Transit routes (such as the 61-Southern and 77-Baseline) go pretty deep into Phoenix.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Note that the East Valley contract under First Transit is still a separate contract from the one for the Phoenix West Division. The former is contracted by the RPTA, while the latter is contracted by the City of Phoenix. Still, you are correct about that there are no clear borders, as some routes by one operator may cross into an area that is dominated by another. Even some of the East Valley First Transit routes (such as the 61-Southern and 77-Baseline) go pretty deep into Phoenix.

You're missing the point about you saying that First Transit primarily serves the west side. It doesn't. Only someone like you who is fascinated with mind-numbing details about the transit system cares that First Transit has two divisions and two contracts. Your statement that First Transit "primarily serves the west side" was just, quite simply, incorrect.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

You're missing the point about you saying that First Transit primarily serves the west side. It doesn't. Only someone like you who is fascinated with mind-numbing details about the transit system cares that First Transit has two divisions and two contracts. Your statement that First Transit "primarily serves the west side" was just, quite simply, incorrect.

Even though they are operated by the same company, they operate independently from each other and are not allowed to talk to each other in everyday operations due to the different contracts. To distinguish them, I often refer to the East Valley operations as First Transit-RPTA, while I refer to the West Phoenix operations as First Transit-Phoenix. My post was specifically about the City of Phoenix managed operations, which First Transit primarily operates in the western part of the city.

[Valley Native]

Even though I'm not in favor of a lot of government intervention, I would like to see some kind of executive order from the Governor's office demanding that these strikers get back to work immediately, or risk being fired (a Ronald Reagan type of move). I'm not even sure if Ducey would have the authority to do such a thing since the drivers are contracted through private organizations. Still, they are performing a service to the public, which is financed through all of our tax dollars.

All I know is something needs to be done to eliminate unions from public service. These bus strikes have been a regular occurrence over the past few years. They have been much more frequent than they used to be, and they accomplish nothing except inconveniencing the ones who rely on the bus system.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Even though I'm not in favor of a lot of government intervention, I would like to see some kind of executive order from the Governor's office demanding that these strikers get back to work immediately, or risk being fired (a Ronald Reagan type of move). I'm not even sure if Ducey would have the authority to do such a thing since the drivers are contracted through private organizations. Still, they are performing a service to the public, which is financed through all of our tax dollars.

All I know is something needs to be done to eliminate unions from public service. These bus strikes have been a regular occurrence over the past few years. They have been much more frequent than they used to be, and they accomplish nothing except inconveniencing the ones who rely on the bus system.

Actually, actual strikes have not been that frequent. Negotiations often go to the eleventh hour, and the drivers currently on strike were working without a contract for months while negotiations went on. I don't think Ducey can do what you want him to do, but hopefully they will reach agreement quickly.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Strikes are lousy but sometimes they are necessary like in this situation.

The union is trying to get bereavement time, uniform allowances, and a tiered payment system.

Driving a bus isn't exactly easy work and I don't see what's wrong with giving operators these basic benefits when so many non-union employees with cushy office jobs have these things.

I just hope the strike is short-lasting, the people who suffer the most during these strikes are the patrons.

And bathroom breaks in sanitary facilities. Not much to ask there.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by observer53

Actually, actual strikes have not been that frequent. Negotiations often go to the eleventh hour, and the drivers currently on strike were working without a contract for months while negotiations went on. I don't think Ducey can do what you want him to do, but hopefully they will reach agreement quickly.

Transit strikes have occurred here quite frequently in recent years. Just off the top of my head, there was a strike in 2012 which affected a large portion of Phoenix bus routes, and in 2013 there was one which affected many East Valley bus routes. As far as I'm concerned, this is a pretty frequent occurrence. Even last year, there were threats of a strike right around the time of the Super Bowl. It's further proof that the unions couldn't care less about the one and only purpose of transit, and that is to serve the public. I'm glad Transdev suspended benefits for striking drivers. Why should they receive benefits for walking off the job?

Originally Posted by observer53

And bathroom breaks in sanitary facilities. Not much to ask there.

Drivers already can take advantage of bathroom breaks when the time allows for it ... predominantly at the beginning and end of the routes, and sometimes in between if there is a stop at a transit center. These drivers are not exactly being treated like caged animals. They already receive a paycheck and benefits for showing up to work, just like the majority of us do. Why disrupt service and inconvenience the riders just for their own selfish demands?!

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Drivers already can take advantage of bathroom breaks when the time allows for it ... predominantly at the beginning and end of the routes, and sometimes in between if there is a stop at a transit center. These drivers are not exactly being treated like caged animals. They already receive a paycheck and benefits for showing up to work, just like the majority of us do. Why disrupt service and inconvenience the riders just for their own selfish demands?!

Many of those long routes (have you actually looked at the map?) don't have "stops at transit centers" (there aren't that many "transit centers"- you may not ride the bus enough to know what those routes are like, and how few "centers" there are) I don't have a problem finding a clean bathroom at work, I'll bet you don't either.


That said, if this was all they were striking over, I would disagree with it. But there wouldn't be a strike if that were the only issue.


As far as the frequency of strikes, I haven't looked up the details and don't remember them off the top of my head, but I've been riding the bus for years and have not been affected. Remember, there are three different contracts and two different companies. There may be more than one local union involved, too.

[observer53]

And now Transdev is on the verge of paying daily fines to the City for not providing Saturday level service on a certain percentage of their routes. They aren't close right now. Pressure on both sides.

[ScottsdaleMark]

I feel that transit bus drivers have a very challenging job that subjects them to a lot of verbal abuse, physical assaults, and entrusts them with a lot of safety concerns, both in operating a large vehicle and also keeping their passengers safe.

I think one of the main "issues" is that there are so many different contractors, routes and unions that it "seems" like one of them is always on strike, but then again having multiple unions/operators helps provide some coverage for those routes when one union does go on strike.

I think one question to ask oneself is, would I want to do that job? Why or why not? Driving a bus through city traffic can get pretty challenging at times (although it's much easier here than, say, in New York City), but dealing with some of the passengers is one of the reasons it's such a dangerous job, statistically and, in my opinion, one of the reasons I think just as much onus should be on the company owners as on the employees to resolve the issues at hand.