Is the Valley of the Sun (Phoenix metro) considered Urban or Suburban? (Tempe: lofts, condo)

[Finger Laker]

Downtown Phoenix is a portion of Phoenix, but not the cut itself which definitely had a suburban layout. It is not a very urban city.

That doesn't make it any less of a city though

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

Downtown had height restrictions due to sky harbor airport. Even if there was a desire to go taller, they wouldn't. A few years back they were pushing further restrictions and there have been numerous dust ups with Tempe and Phoenix over buildings throughout the years. Our heat pushes more concern here as well as the hot air is less dense and requires more power to get off the ground. The aviation concern is losing add engine or something similar during takeoff

Nothing but excuses! The heat isn't even relevant to the height of buildings. If you truly believe that the weather is one of the reasons to not build taller, then large cities in cold climates should have restricted their buildings' heights because it actually becomes colder the higher up you go, and that would require more power to heat the inside of the buildings. New York and Chicago have skyscrapers well over 1,000 feet tall despite their cold winter climates, and construction crews were able to build them with no problem despite all the inclement weather they get back there. Phoenix would have an advantage as far as the construction of more highrises: very little inclement weather to stand in the way.

Regarding the aviation excuse, you can blame the FAA for helping to put those restrictions in place, despite the fact that tall buildings have very little impact on takeoffs & landings, especially when downtown Phoenix and Tempe aren't exactly right on top of Sky Harbor. San Diego's downtown area is a lot closer to their airport than Phoenix's, and yet San Diego has managed to erect a decent skyline consisting of buildings even taller than ours despite their height restrictions.

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by asufan

I can't believe 6 people didn't think Phoenix is Suburban in nature

I can't believe anyone is still talking about this. Seriously! We should be talking about the weather or something important like that!

[Finger Laker]

Slow down and read again

The heat is part of the FAA reasoning for pushing restrictions. It is also part of the reason why heavier planes/cargo do not fly here.

Those aren't separate issues, they are the same - there have been numerous projects killed under the pressure of the FAA, especially in Tempe, with many more being modified in both cities. Not excuses, reality.

Flight paths are a constant issue out here. Recent modifications impacted the historic districts.

San Diego has the benefit of being able to run a flight path over the ocean and are still restricted to a 500' building height. Theirs aren't really taller by much at the top end, there is just more of them - which is reflective of their geographic constraints and much higher property values and building costs.

The current reality is that we aren't going to be tall, which is fine.

Continue with the infill, diversified use and build improved access and infrastructure around that growth. Going tall for ego or for just the sake of doing it doesn't make sense

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by asufan

I can't believe 6 people didn't think Phoenix is Suburban in nature

I was one of the six. New York City and Singapore are not the be all definition of urban. I grew up in a suburb in Upstate NY, and Phoenix is a hell of a lot more dense and urban than that. My census tract has a population density of 16,400ppsm, and my ZIP code has a population density of 8,800ppsm. That is urban, I'm sorry.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I was one of the six. New York City and Singapore are not the be all definition of urban. I grew up in a suburb in Upstate NY, and Phoenix is a hell of a lot more dense and urban than that. My census tract has a population density of 16,400ppsm, and my ZIP code has a population density of 8,800ppsm. That is urban, I'm sorry.

Phoenix is automobile oriented suburbanville. I know you live in that area by I-17 with all the apartments, but there's also an abundance of surface parking there, and the area is bounded by single family detached housing.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by asufan

Phoenix is automobile oriented suburbanville. I know you live in that area by I-17 with all the apartments, but there's also an abundance of surface parking there, and the area is bounded by single family detached housing.

I live right off the light rail line, halfway between the Glendale and Montebello stops

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by asufan

Phoenix is automobile oriented suburbanville. I know you live in that area by I-17 with all the apartments, but there's also an abundance of surface parking there, and the area is bounded by single family detached housing.

Even San Francisco has detached houses in the city/county limits. Again, it seems you are thinking anything less than Taipei, Singapore or Manhattan is "suburbanville"

[asufan]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Even San Francisco has detached houses in the city/county limits. Again, it seems you are thinking anything less than Taipei, Singapore or Manhattan is "suburbanville"

LOL don't try to compare Phoenix to SF. It's suburban, just embrace it. One of the things I like is that I can go to a restaurant and find decent parking and don't have to drive 5 blocks away to parallel park somewhere. I like driving and having open space and yards with pools etc. It's not a knock on Phoenix, it's just calling it what it is.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by asufan

I'm not commenting at all on Atlanta, I am talking about the City of Phoenix. Downtown is Quasi Urban but Phoenix as a whole is suburban in nature, no doubt about it. Downtown Phoenix itself has a lot of work to do in terms of walkability, with still lots of dead zones, and lots of buildings that don't work well with pedestrians. From a planning perspective (and I was an undergrad Urban Planning major) it is very suburban/automobile oriented.

Quasi urban? See what I mean about the definition, there isn't one. It's an opinion and that's about it, to me Phoenix has a great mix of urban options and should keep improving them, which it is. As far as I'm concerned a city with prices like SF and NY might as well not even exist, it's like visiting Disneyland, you can go but you can't afford to stay there too long. That's completely out of touch with reality for most people.