Hate to ask, but exactly how Christian Conservative Right is the Phoenix Area? (camps, to live)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson

I don't mean to lecture anyone on this. It just ticks me off when I hear people so upset at people trying to spread what they believe to be true. You don't have to believe or remotely agree with what they say! Just try not to be so angered by it.

I don't see it that way. I see a glossy-eyed, "programmed" person being told what to do by soothing fanatics who ACTUALLY believe that some dead mortal (Joseph Smith) saw a series of visions.

What was Joseph's proof? Well of course he was told by angles that there were buried solid golden plates inscribed with a Judeo-Christian history of an ancient American civilization. As luck would have it, those plates were buried right by his house in the hills of New York state. Smith then published what he said was an English translation of these plates. Before he showed the world of these plates and put them on display, mysteriously, the "angel" told him to bury it. Of course the translation said that he could be the leader and a benefit with many wives. He had 40 (one which was 14 years old). See https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b08dc094869a8c

Now that was 1 minute of googling. I could write "The Book of Illogical" and I could become the supreme leader. So why wouldn't I be bothered when someone wants to bring me into that questionable religion (I worked really hard not to type cult)? They would want me to give away my money to help "spread the word" about these mythical golden plates. Reading a 15 second note^^ won't be enough to instill logic considering you had a lifetime of "teachings". But as you might guess, I'm a wee bit too logical to sign off on fiction. Especially when they what 20% of my money. No thanks!

So we are clear, I too spread my word when someone knocks on my door. I politely let them know how weak their mind is and why they need to question the obvious. Because if someone is in my face, I feel it is my duty to help them understand how incredibly illogical and rude they are. As I said, I'm agnostic and not an atheist. But smart enough to know Joseph Smith was a complete scam artist.

In short, I don't want you to "spread the word" on my private property. Nor do I want anyone pimping me for business. In Surprise, I get 2-5 visitors a month who comb our neighborhood knocking on doors trying to sell me things. It gets old. They toss crap on our steps, they slide flyers in our door, and they think it is o.k. At least they don't want 20% of my money.

[Andrew Wilson]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I don't see it that way. I see a glossy-eyed, "programmed" person being told what to do by soothing fanatics who ACTUALLY believe that some dead mortal (Joseph Smith) saw a series of visions.

What was Joseph's proof? Well of course he was told by angles that there were buried solid golden plates inscribed with a Judeo-Christian history of an ancient American civilization. As luck would have it, those plates were buried right by his house in the hills of New York state. Smith then published what he said was an English translation of these plates. Before he showed the world of these plates and put them on display, mysteriously, the "angel" told him to bury it. Of course the translation said that he could be the leader and a benefit with many wives. He had 40 (one which was 14 years old). See https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b08dc094869a8c

Now that was 1 minute of googling. I could write "The Book of Illogical" and I could become the supreme leader. So why wouldn't I be bothered when someone wants to bring me into that questionable religion (I worked really hard not to type cult)? They would want me to give away my money to help "spread the word" about these mythical golden plates. Reading a 15 second note^^ won't be enough to instill logic considering you had a lifetime of "teachings". But as you might guess, I'm a wee bit too logical to sign off on fiction. Especially when they what 20% of my money. No thanks!

So we are clear, I too spread my word when someone knocks on my door. I politely let them know how weak their mind is and why they need to question the obvious. Because if someone is in my face, I feel it is my duty to help them understand how incredibly illogical and rude they are. As I said, I'm agnostic and not an atheist. But smart enough to know Joseph Smith was a complete scam artist.

In short, I don't want you to "spread the word" on my private property. Nor do I want anyone pimping me for business. In Surprise, I get 2-5 visitors a month who comb our neighborhood knocking on doors trying to sell me things. It gets old. They toss crap on our steps, they slide flyers in our door, and they think it is o.k. At least they don't want 20% of my money.

First off all, what I posted wasn't supposed to be about Mormons or Joseph Smith's many wives.

Secondly, you have proved that you have no tolerance for other people's beliefs. So then why should anyone tolerate yours? Or even hear you out?

Third, why don't you write a book of illogical and get lots of followers? I mean, it's as simple as that right?

Lastly, get a real argument.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson

First off all, what I posted wasn't supposed to be about Mormons or Joseph Smith's many wives.

Secondly, you have proved that you have no tolerance for other people's beliefs. So then why should anyone tolerate yours? Or even hear you out?

Third, why don't you write a book of illogical and get lots of followers? I mean, it's as simple as that right?

Lastly, get a real argument.

I don't have tolerance for cockamamie beliefs. I don't appreciate not-so-logical people attempting to convert me at MY home when I am trying to work or relax. That's rude under the guise of trying to "save me". That insults my intelligence.

I have better things to do that lie to people to get followers. I'll leave that to Jim Jones, Charles Manson, David Koresh and others. They found it easy. If they put a more positive spin on it, the leader would be called L. Ron Hubbard. So please, don't peddle Joseph Smith's fiction at my doorstep. People of sound mind realize that his story is a complete fable. Truth be told, I am extremely good at sales and I would have mountains of followers (as I do with my vocation). But 1st things 1st; I need to really believe what I sell.

Edit. boy am I glad I didn't move to Gilbert with a church smack-dab in the center of the development. My message is live and let live. It's well known that religion should not be a topic people should talk about (hence stop "spreading the word"). I won't pimp my version if you don't pimp yours. Most importantly, stay off my property.

[Elna Rae]

Originally Posted by Dweller790

I really, really, really don't like fanatics. I worry about having to sit quietly with a neutral smile on my face in a group of people who talk endlessly about Jesus and how fabulous Trump is and how we need tons of guns for everyone and a border wall, and how poor people are all to blame for where they are in life (as if exigent circumstances never exist, for instance--who cares if you're a full-time caregiver and can't work outside the home, it's your fault that you're living in poverty, etc.), and gays need to go to conversion therapy and on and on.

OP, I find your statement puzzling. Where and under what circumstances have you actually experienced this? Were you “forced” to listen, unable to walk away, or ask them to leave your property? It almost sounds like a straw man situation. Would love to hear specific examples so we have context.

I feel the same way about sports as you do religion. Can not STAND listening to people yammering on about this or that ball team and people being in absolute shock that for all I care we could abolish all pro sports. I have a choice to either walk away or not surround myself with sports fanatics but I’m not intimidated or offended by them. The only way they could possibly leverage me is by physical force.

Rather than stereotyping or pigeon-holing how about just exercising your freedom to ignore? That way you won’t be disappointed or frustrated when your carefully crafted plan to engineer and orchestrate your environment fails.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Elna Rae

OP, I find your statement puzzling. Where and under what circumstances have you actually experienced this? Were you “forced” to listen, unable to walk away, or ask them to leave your property? It almost sounds like a straw man situation. Would love to hear specific examples so we have context.

Work would be one situation where you would either listen and smile or have no support from your co-workers for an 8-12hr shift.. Neighbors - kinda hard to stay amicable if you explain that you're not receptive to sky-beings or in support of certain political views. I don't think there's anything "puzzling" in the post. I've been in a number of situations in AZ where co workers made statements that were deeply offensive & I didn't have a "choice" to walk away.

[Elna Rae]

We ALL have the ability and freedom to allow someone else’s words to “bother” us or not.

Again, if you allow others to leverage you with their words you are doomed to suffer torment. It is simply unreasonable to create a safe space around yourself.

[Slater]

Overall, Arizona is a gun-friendly, generally religious state.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Elna Rae

We ALL have the ability and freedom to allow someone else’s words to “bother” us or not.

Forgive me for going out on a limb. This forum (including myself) is full of opinionated people. We tend to be a group that gets bothered by people when they suggest they are wrong (and after they have thoughtfully arrived to their POV). I bet to some degree, you get bothered by it too. In fact, you are "bothered" that people get "bothered". Agree??

But you are right with your stated assertion ^^.

[Elna Rae]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Forgive me for going out on a limb. This forum (including myself) is full of opinionated people. We tend to be a group that gets bothered by people when they suggest they are wrong (and after they have thoughtfully arrived to their POV). I bet to some degree, you get bothered by it too. In fact, you are "bothered" that people get "bothered". Agree??

But you are right with your stated assertion ^^.

Huge difference between being “surprised” by another’s POV and being offended. Someone can personally attack with words to their hearts desire and that is their right; why should it “offend” me that they are simply exercising rights that I believe great Americans died for?

However, lift a hand toward me or my loved ones and there will be blood to pay.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Elna Rae

We ALL have the ability and freedom to allow someone else’s words to “bother” us or not.

Again, if you allow others to leverage you with their words you are doomed to suffer torment. It is simply unreasonable to create a safe space around yourself.

If your co-workers feel emboldened to attack your deeply-held beliefs for sport, that is by definition a hostile work environment. You're not playing a "victim" card by being offended. This isn't about "safe spaces" it's about not being an ass & imposing your beliefs on others who don't have a choice about leaving.