Phoenix is no longer such an affordable place to live (employment, school tuition)

[ShampooBanana]

Originally Posted by knicksin8

Interesting, I would not have guessed that the Las Vegas housing market is more expensive than Phoenix. Reno, NV (which has zero pro sports teams) also appears to have a more expensive housing market when compared to Phoenix.

Resale housing cost in Vegas is comparable to Phoenix, but new homes are significantly more expensive, especially when comparing like to like homes. It's because lad there is much more constrained so land costs are very high, and they have even more pronounced construction labor shortage issues than Phoenix does, so higher labor rates also.

Reno (and Carson City) has gotten very popular over the past few years as a much lower costs alternative place to live for Bay Area and Sacramento residents. It was an undiscovered gem given it's proximity to Lake Tahoe and the mountains and what WAS a very low cost of living. No longer. It's definitely been discovered and the new Tesla gigafactory being built outside of it is only hastening it. FYI, the same thing is currently happening to Boise and northern Idaho now (Spokane/Coeur D'Alene) to slightly lessor extent.

[timothyaw]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

She's absolutely right. We are a nation of immigrants, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they need to follow the proper procedures and come here legally. Plus, they should learn our language & adapt to our customs. Unfortunately, many migrants want to sneak in the easy way, refuse to assimilate, and expect handouts via our welfare system ... or at best, work grunt jobs that lack skills. .

And with those low skilled jobs demand a much higher minimum wage, which doesn't encourage or motivate those people to get higher skilled jobs. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be livable wage, they are meant for teenagers to get experience in the job place and earn some cash.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

And with those low skilled jobs demand a much higher minimum wage, which doesn't encourage or motivate those people to get higher skilled jobs. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be livable wage, they are meant for teenagers to get experience in the job place and earn some cash.

The median age of a fast food worker is now 29 years old. And I can say from first hand experience it's mainly adults working these jobs now, many with children of their own. Before I became a truck driver, I had 2 jobs, my day job was in a warehouse, and had a second job on weekends delivering pizza. I was 31 at the time, and all my co workers were my age or older. And for them, it was their only/main job

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Phoenix seems to cycle between inexpensive to moderately expensive. Before 2002, Phoenix was inexpensive and then the 2002-2007 period it got a little expensive and then crashed to inexpensive and is now rising to the point of slightly more expensive than average. Will anything change this cycle? My opinion is that the only way this cycle changes is if Phoenix got a major economic engine driving company/industry to drive it, otherwise, it will likely continue the cycle above.

Pretty much true. Phoenix RE market seems to run in a 10 year pattern of highs to lows. The area's biggest downfall is that while there are major companies operating in the state, we have VERY few HQs here. Pretty sad that we are one of 22 states where Walmart is the #1 employer.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

And with those low skilled jobs demand a much higher minimum wage, which doesn't encourage or motivate those people to get higher skilled jobs. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be livable wage, they are meant for teenagers to get experience in the job place and earn some cash.

Very true. What makes matters worse is the minimum wage increase that AZ voters passed in 2016, which automatically guarantees a yearly raise for low skilled workers doing the same tasks, while middle income people rarely ever see an increase if they stay with their current roles. Meanwhile, the cost of basic goods & services keeps increasing, and has been noticeably since the minimum wage began its upward movement.

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Pretty much true. Phoenix RE market seems to run in a 10 year pattern of highs to lows. The area's biggest downfall is that while there are major companies operating in the state, we have VERY few HQs here. Pretty sad that we are one of 22 states where Walmart is the #1 employer.

It's pathetic that Phoenix is now one of the nation's largest metro areas, yet we struggle to attract reputable national/global companies (except a few regional corporate centers), and we're too dependent on the service industry, real estate, snowbirds. Why is this? We don't seem to mind having the population of a large city/metro area, but still want to behave like a mid sized town.

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Very true. What makes matters worse is the minimum wage increase that AZ voters passed in 2016, which automatically guarantees a yearly raise for low skilled workers doing the same tasks, while middle income people rarely ever see an increase if they stay with their current roles. Meanwhile, the cost of basic goods & services keeps increasing, and has been noticeably since the minimum wage began its upward movement.



It's pathetic that Phoenix is now one of the nation's largest metro areas, yet we struggle to attract reputable national/global companies (except a few regional corporate centers), and we're too dependent on the service industry, real estate, snowbirds. Why is this? We don't seem to mind having the population of a large city/metro area, but still want to behave like a mid sized town.

Okay but what do you suggest to get those companies. My brother says the reason Seattle has so many home grown world class companies compared to Phoenix is the weather is crap in Seattle so people just go inside and work while in Phoenix, people have better things to do.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Okay but what do you suggest to get those companies. My brother says the reason Seattle has so many home grown world class companies compared to Phoenix is the weather is crap in Seattle so people just go inside and work while in Phoenix, people have better things to do.

Notice that the states of Washington and Texas have quite a few Fortune 500/Fortune 1,000 companies, but both have completely opposite weather/climatic conditions, so weather really has nothing to do with it. Both of them do have friendly business climates and a skilled workforce, which are the important things these world class companies are seeking. The fact that both of those states have no income tax also helps. Out of curiosity, what "better things to do" does your brother refer to?

[LBTRS]

I wonder how the increased minimum wage is driving this? Those at the bottom got a big raise but none in the middle or top got a raise yet costs all around us are going up very quickly.

I'm an HR Director and those we had making $8.50/hr (more than the $8.05 minimum wage) a couple years ago are now making $11/hour and tell us we need to give them a raise or they will go somewhere they can make more than minimum wage.

Worse, they get the state mandated minimum wage increase each year and then want a cost of living increase on their anniversary of the same year.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

The median age of a fast food worker is now 29 years old. And I can say from first hand experience it's mainly adults working these jobs now, many with children of their own. Before I became a truck driver, I had 2 jobs, my day job was in a warehouse, and had a second job on weekends delivering pizza. I was 31 at the time, and all my co workers were my age or older. And for them, it was their only/main job

This isn't true at all, at least around here. My teenage daughter works fast food and it is mostly with teens and young 20 somethings. Very few 29-30 year olds at McDonald's.

[ShampooBanana]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Okay but what do you suggest to get those companies. My brother says the reason Seattle has so many home grown world class companies compared to Phoenix is the weather is crap in Seattle so people just go inside and work while in Phoenix, people have better things to do.

That's a poor excuse. How would you explain places like San Francisco Bay Area which has fantastic weather almost year round then but tons of world class company HQs? Same thing with places like Dallas, Austin, Houston, and Atlanta. It's much more varied and nuanced than that.

Some of the reasons Phoenix has so few homegrown world class companies for it's size are:

1. While it's a highly populated metro area now, it was comparatively small until just a few decades ago. Most of the biggest companies have been around much longer than that and were established in other places that were much bigger and more economically dynamic that Phoenix at the time.

2. Until fairly recently, Phoenix hasn't traditionally had a very big startup/tech presence. It started it's growth more as a tourist hub for winter snowbirds, then as an ideal military training outpost (especially for flying since it's sunny most of the time so great for Air Force pilot training, and also as a testing hotbed for automakers and other equipment manufacturers who could test under high heat conditions).

After A/C became more common post WW2 then the population started to grow, initially as many of those who had done military training here liked the area and came back, and then it became discovered. That's why it has had a fairly healthy defense contractor presence for a while (Boeing, General Dynamics, Honeywell, Orbital ATK) and finally it became noticed as a hub for chip manufacturers, etc, who could supply chips and hardware for several of those companies. Motorola used to have a presence here, then (and now) companies like Intel and ON Semiconductor joined the fray. Phoenix has a bigger presence in the aerospace and chipmaking sectors than most realize, even if not many of those companies are HQ'd here.

Lately, though, Phoenix has fostered a presence as home to a number of very fast growing disruptors (companies related to self-driving technology & internet companies that are disruptors like Opendoor, Offerpad, Carvana/DriveTime, Tuft N Needle, etc) and is one of the faster growing tech startup economies in the US. Phoenix has been actively attracting companies from California by enticing them with the lower costs of living and doing business. It's working, as tech sector job have increase by some 60% in just the past 9 years, and by over 300% in 5 years in downtown Phoenix alone.

3. Finally, another reason is the relative lack of higher education institutions here. It's really just ASU as the big dog in Phoenix and then just U of A and NAU and GCU with minor presence here (along with a few other satellite campuses here and there). The R&D and spinoff companies that come from collaboration with major universities is simply not going to be as prevalent here due to that. Most other big cities have multiple established major universities with R&D resources that help drive that innovation and ultimately the business growth that comes with it. SkySong and ASU Research Park is a good start but it's still very little compared to most.

That said, there are some great world class companies that are based here. Some even that are relatively new and many that are household names. Uhaul, Best Western, GoDaddy, Avnet, Discount Tire, Freeport McMoran, PetSmart, Republic Services, Apollo Group, Insight, ON Semiconductor, PF Changs, Meritage Homes, Taylor Morrison, Greyhound, Fender, Taser, First Solar, just to name a few...