Golf course communities -- a concern to consider.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

No, the HOA and golf assets have been separate entities with separate accounting. The assets are alleged to be profitable.

If homeowners vote to buy the assets then each homeowner will be assessed $39/mo for 36 months to pay the mortgage of $4M at 6% interests for 3 years. Sale price is to be $4M which I think is too high. There's all sorts of statements posted by numerous homeowners to the point I've no idea if that's a fair price and/or if remarks are true that the course needs $1M to replace the entire 18-year-old irrigation system and/or the alleged need for another $1M to rebuild all the sand traps. I've no idea where truth lies. There are so many reams of studies and reports that finding specific data would take me all day and still may not find the truth. I suspect outside firms who buy golf courses have been in the play the course and may find the $4M price tag too high, or maybe not. It will be interesting to see what the assets sell for in the open market if the homeowners vote down the proposed purchase.

That looks like a big money pit to me. Like German cars out of warranty

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

That looks like a big money pit to me. ...

I cannot find any REITs for golf course real estate as exists for most other classes of real estate. That tells me something.

[DAXhound]

Originally Posted by Hal Roach

Here is a view of the clubhouse (demolished), lake (drained), and 10th hole at el caro, n 21st Dr., 85021.

New townhouses..1200 sf 2 level, 2 br/3 bath 1 cg...start at 399k...on the spot of Hal's photo. Elevated flood risk at that location. The course was 60 acres..a zoning attorney bought it from foreclosure/bankruptcy for 1.2 million about 2009. Is it even necessary to say crap schools?

[Bates419]

Golf might have been in decline a few years ago but it has had a resurgence during covid. No idea if will last but golf courses are as busy as they have ever been and are charging rates never seen before.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Bates419

Golf might have been in decline a few years ago but it has had a resurgence during covid. No idea if will last but golf courses are as busy as they have ever been and are charging rates never seen before.

Yep ^^! @ years ago, our course picked up a new member here and there. In the last 2 years, they have sold a massive amount of memberships. As in, they are almost sold out. And they have raised the buy-in close to 70% higher. Another $20K bump coming in a couple of months. It's gone from barely selling to flying off the shelves. Some courses around us are charging $500K and the wait is LONG. WTF? Crazy times....

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I live in a gated 55+ community. Great landscaping, lovely place, with many amenities, one of which is a golf course with clubhouse and eatery.

Golf is in a decline. Adidas' golf revenue fell 28% last year despite a booming economy.

Direct excerpts from article: "The number of young people, aged 18 to 30, playing the game has sagged nearly 35 percent over the last decade. ... That drop-off has hit America's greens and links hard. More golf courses closed than opened in 2013 for the eighth straight year, according to the National Golf Foundation. And the number of course closures has sped up, averaging 137 closings every year since 2011, data from golf-industry researcher Pellucid show."

For some time now the developer of our community has been shopping around for a buyer to take our golf course, club house and restaurant but no buyers are interested. Now they want to sell it to our HOA but no one knows what the economic impact of that will be to homeowners, nor do we know what will happen if the HOA members (homeowners) decline to buy the "assets."

In a prior life I lived in COLO SPGS where several courses went bankrupt and closed. In one case a developer (naturally) wants to get his hands on the land and build homes. Home buyers who paid a premium for a "golf course lot" are incandescent with rage at such a screwing over. No one here in my current 'hood has any idea if we can let it revert to open space desert or a wash or whatever. There are legal issues for most any course of action. Well kiddies, isn't retirement fun.

For potential homebuyers in this area (and indeed nationwide) this is a cautionary tale to take a hard look at any community where a golf course is part of the allure. It may be best to avoid such places and live in a non-golf community. To each their own. YMMV.

There was an article in the Phoenix paper within the last 10 days about a course north of Tucson, as I recall, that they are letting revert to desert as part of an intentional return to a nature preserve. At first I thought that was a good idea (even as an ex-golfer). In thinking about it more, I began wondering how pleased the 'neighbors' would be when more rattlesnakes, gila monsters, coyotes, etc. return to their neighborhoods.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Burkmere

I hope you are wrong. Having zillions of golf courses for recreation is a terrible waste of land in my opinion. I hope the trend of lesser golfers continues or begins and many of the golf courses are converted into something else. There are many other ways to recreate that don't involve the use of huge tracts of and simply because one likes to hit a small ball with a long stick. My opinion of course.

I don't think that's a valid way of thinking. I hate football with a passion. I don't think there should be government-owned stadiums or stadiums built with any public funds, including access roads, etc. But I realize that my personal tastes can't dictate land use.

[wp169]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

There was an article in the Phoenix paper within the last 10 days about a course north of Tucson, as I recall, that they are letting revert to desert as part of an intentional return to a nature preserve. At first I thought that was a good idea (even as an ex-golfer). In thinking about it more, I began wondering how pleased the 'neighbors' would be when more rattlesnakes, gila monsters, coyotes, etc. return to their neighborhoods.

More homes would be better than dealing with wildlife. This situation reminds me of years ago when it was decided to put apartment buildings near my home instead of more houses, the neighborhood association fought it but lost, but it was the best thing to happen to my house. It turned out the apt. building's big parking lot faces my backyard at a good distance away, there are tall trees in between my yard and the parking lot so it's hidden from view most of the year and I've had complete privacy instead of having more houses backing up so close to my backyard! In this case a situation perceived to be bad turned out to be a good thing.