Phoenix, the most unaffordable "affordable" place to live (townhouse, unemployment rate)

[jaredC]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

Your average 1 br in Phoenix that is in a safe area and a building that isn’t completely run down now runs about $2000 a month, often more when fees are tacked on. This is now an expensive city with heavy traffic that gets worse by the day and a prominent homeless problem that is growing at an exponential rate. It is also getting hotter and the quality of life is generally declining due to a number of different factors (skyrocketing costs, overwhelming influx of transplants, significant overcrowding of limited amenities, strained public resources, infrastructure starting to show its age, worsening climate problems etc etc) IMO moving to Phoenix now without any specific ties to the area is beyond foolish. You can get much more for your money elsewhere.

Not to mention inflation has risen the highest in the nation, here in Phoenix.

[jaredC]

Originally Posted by john3232

I understand moving with esp. a child in school is difficult. And yes... events can happen in life which are out of our control.

Nevertheless, the question becomes what are you going to do? If you can't afford to buy or rent in the Phx metro perhaps it's time to consider another part of the country.

Supply and demand dictates what I can charge for a rental. As long as people continue to move here in droves esp. from wealthier areas I suspect rents won't drop much. Assuming they drop at all.

We can afford to continue renting. We are also looking to buy as well. It's a tough pill to swallow with the rising housing costs and lack of inventory. Honestly though, it's tough to compete with investment firms that pay cash for these houses.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by bobsell

So you're saying people deserve to starve?

Also, thanks to the catch-22, people are stuck in these roles - but let me guess - you think the catch-22 does not exist.

Hmm...not to start beating the minimum wage/Living wage (which no one can define) into the ground but there was a study done by the US Military years ago when they developed the ASVAB testing for entrance into the military. They found that folks below a certain level were "untrainable" despite any effort and were then not allowed into the military. Those "untrainable" individuals amounted to anywhere from 4% - 10% in any given testing cycle.

Now I know that not everyone takes the ASVAB but the test was designed in a way to weed out people that were not worth the military's time or effort to try and train.

These are the people I envision working minimum wage/unskilled jobs. Those that can't be trained. Everyone else is just making excuses or blaming someone else for their laziness.

No, people don't deserve to starve, nor do I think ANYONE in the US is being paid or worked fairly (as far as employees go). The top keeps getting richer and richer meanwhile anyone that makes less than $100k a year is feeling this inflation spike. The work practices in the US would be seen as sub-standard anywhere across Europe, if not downright illegal.

More and more people are buying into the Real Estate Investment game, including institutional investors. At last count there were some 82.4M detached SFH in the US. This does not include Apartment homes or MDUs. If you averaged 4 people per SFH, we could house our 329.5M population in said homes. No apartments, no multiplexes, etc. We don't have a housing shortage, we have an occupancy shortage.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by john3232

I understand moving with esp. a child in school is difficult. And yes... events can happen in life which are out of our control.

Nevertheless, the question becomes what are you going to do? If you can't afford to buy or rent in the Phx metro perhaps it's time to consider another part of the country.

Supply and demand dictates what I can charge for a rental. As long as people continue to move here in droves esp. from wealthier areas I suspect rents won't drop much. Assuming they drop at all.

When comparing real estate cycles, I think this current one comes closest to the situation mid-70s and ending a decline in 1981, or the late 80s to early 90s decline. Declines were minimal if any at all nominally, around 10% in real terms after inflation. I think this was true both for prices and rents. So if we start a decline around 2024 to around 2028, it may end up being 10% in real terms and nominally flat. RE loan underwriting standards are still so much better compared to early 2000s, as are consumer balance sheets. I do not see anything like the 2006-10 downturn this time around. OTOH this also means buying opportunities will not be as good as then.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by NearFantastica

This is false and blatant right wing propaganda. Minimum wage is intended to be a living wage to provide people with a good living, more than a bare subsistence level. This was FDR's vision in 1933. Wages are stagnant and not rising to keep up with inflation nor cost of living, which is why this country is in the mess that its in.

Before you go on a political rant, I fully agree that wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. Arizona ranks 10th lowest in the nation for average incomes. We're down on the list with Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma, which is embarrassing. The answer is not to raise the minimum wage. Arizona's minimum wage is already higher than most states (and keeps increasing every year).

Regardless of FDR's vision, minimum wage earners have always been the ones who generally have few skills, little education, and a lack of ambition. Why should they be rewarded with a "good living" when they didn't get busy and improve themselves? It's the people in the middle income range who we should be more concerned about because their incomes have remained stagnant ... and according to one source, they're impacted by inflation more than the upper & lower classes.

https://grow.acorns.com/inflation-im...le-class-most/

Originally Posted by john3232

I understand moving with esp. a child in school is difficult. And yes... events can happen in life which are out of our control.

Nevertheless, the question becomes what are you going to do? If you can't afford to buy or rent in the Phx metro perhaps it's time to consider another part of the country.

This is precisely what these complainers need to consider. Until they realize this and DO something about their financial situation, they're just shouting into the wind & spinning their wheels.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by jaredC

Or even San Diego! We are getting to that level, and yet we don't have the beaches or the weather like they do.

SFH prices are at 1 million and 7 dollar gas. Not even close.

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by jaredC

Or even San Diego! We are getting to that level, and yet we don't have the beaches or the weather like they do.

Phoenix average house price is less than half of San Diego, so we are not on their level. If you can make substantially more in SD or if you're wealthy, you can enjoy that gorgeous weather and beaches. If I had another $3M or so, I would seriously consider SD.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Everyone else is just making excuses or blaming someone else for their laziness.

The catch-22 is not an "excuse" nor is it laziness - it is a real reason why people can't get out of those Mcjobs. Employers DO NOT count Mcjob experience for career jobs.

So many kids go to college, work Mcjobs during their 4 years and don't get an internship - oops, they are not allowed to have a career job thanks to the catch-22.

Someone stuck in a Mcjob gets the idea "I'll learn new skills" - does so and oops, no job for them because of the catch-22.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by jaredC

That is exactly what Native is saying. he is the perfect example of a person that has received his and now looks down upon those and say's "Not for you". What a sad human being.

Yup. Catch-22 deniers are cut from the same cloth.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Hmm...not to start beating the minimum wage/Living wage (which no one can define) into the ground but there was a study done by the US Military years ago when they developed the ASVAB testing for entrance into the military. They found that folks below a certain level were "untrainable" despite any effort and were then not allowed into the military. Those "untrainable" individuals amounted to anywhere from 4% - 10% in any given testing cycle.

Now I know that not everyone takes the ASVAB but the test was designed in a way to weed out people that were not worth the military's time or effort to try and train.

These are the people I envision working minimum wage/unskilled jobs. Those that can't be trained. Everyone else is just making excuses or blaming someone else for their laziness.

No, people don't deserve to starve, nor do I think ANYONE in the US is being paid or worked fairly (as far as employees go). The top keeps getting richer and richer meanwhile anyone that makes less than $100k a year is feeling this inflation spike. The work practices in the US would be seen as sub-standard anywhere across Europe, if not downright illegal.

More and more people are buying into the Real Estate Investment game, including institutional investors. At last count there were some 82.4M detached SFH in the US. This does not include Apartment homes or MDUs. If you averaged 4 people per SFH, we could house our 329.5M population in said homes. No apartments, no multiplexes, etc. We don't have a housing shortage, we have an occupancy shortage.

I was never more than a C student in high school or university. However, I've always been ambitious. I wanted money but working a 9 to 5 job wasn't for me. I had to get out into the world and make my way.

Now, not everyone is ambitious... and that's o.k. My niece is like that. Nice young lady who was raised and went to school in the "everyone gets a trophy, everyone is a winner" era. Unfortunately, the real world can be harsh

I've told her mother if she doesn't want to do much...then get a government job. She can take and pass a test with no problem and the race card works in her favor. (She's half Hispanic.)