Phoenix, the most unaffordable "affordable" place to live (balloon payment, coupons)
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For those of you who keep saying just move somewhere else - do you have any idea how much it costs to move?
Last week I priced a 16-foot truck and a trailer to pull my vehicle from Southern California to Northern Alabama. The cost was $7K before taxes and insurance. Gas, of course extra. Then I checked into the smallest cargo trailer that U-Haul has: a 4x8. That cost was $937 before taxes and insurance.
For reference/comparison, in 2010 I moved from Portland to North Phoenix/Scottsdale. I rented a 26 ft brand new truck from Hertz Penske and pulled my vehicle behind. Total cost of the rental excluding gas: $1,600.
For those of you who keep saying just move somewhere else
We must be reading a different thread. People have repeated over and over that, nearly everyone is limited to where they can live in life. Me too. And one such reality is in order to afford something, you might have to move and compromise. The topic came up often about buying a home. As in, if you cannot afford to buy a home, what are your options? Move or rent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
For those of you who keep saying just move somewhere else - do you have any idea how much it costs to move?
I sure do. I timed a big-ass UHaul rental pretty well. The rental truck had a massive swing in rates. They rent trucks cheap when they want them to a different location. In 2011, it cost me $1200 for a one-way plus gas. I packed my own truck with my wife. It was a PITA. The stuff that didn't fit, I sold used. When I got here, we bought all kinds of household items used (Facebook, massive sales in Sun City West liquidation sales etc). I could have bought items used. But that's not how you get money in the bank. It's called discipline. I had old cell phones, I didn't mind shopping at garage sales when it was convenient, I saved every nickel for decades, etc. Meaning, I saved and was frugal with my money even when I didn't have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
moved to San Tan Valley. I moved out here because a few years ago - you got a lot more house for less money. Sure you have a drive to go most places but I made the move and to be honest I don't regret it one bit.
Oh.. So you moved to a lower-cost place. And you don't regret it? Well, I hope so! That makes sense to me. I've done the same thing my whole life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
If you are not able to afford the ever increasing cost of everything in Arizona (mostly housing) how are you going to have a few thousand around to cover the cost of moving? Plus it is very hard for someone that is over 40 to move by ones self. Then you have your job - can you leave it? Or relocate it?
If you don't have a friend to help, that sounds like a pretty lonely person. If you are STUPID with your finances and spend every last nickel, then you are always trapped. The only thing left is to complain that it's not your fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
As a native I don't think because a bunch of greedy corporations and sheep feel like telling me to leave my home where I have been my entire life because they deem it time to make it totally unaffordable here for most. And quit with the stupid screaming just do it video - its all good for those of you that write in here that are yet to be forced out but if this keeps up you will be next and quickly so I wonder how you will like to be told to relocate and to just do it at age 50 and above?
Do I sound like a sheep? Unfortunately, there are too many people walking the planet that literally cannot see the writing on the wall. I offered what I would do in this situation. You think people DESERVE to live where they want. The advice is to either change the system yourself (impossible) or adapt. I don't care what people do. I got to the finish line by training for decades (living under my means). Toss it and give people your advice to keep on digging a financial hole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchz
By the way I have relatives that say they only surrounded themselves with positive people too. They both were given everything in life to put them where they are and didn't even have the decency to be grateful to the person(s) who gave it all to them. You want to know what the rest of the family thinks of them? Narcissist and words a lot worse.
I think that statement is aimed at me. I will say you don't have a clue where I came from or my wife. When you have brothers in prison (Leavenworth) , meth users who made products at their parents, several HS dropouts, sisters and stepsisters with teenage pregnancies, several on welfare, alcoholic and verbally abusive dad, then come talk with me about how easy it was. If it makes you feel better, then paint any picture you want of how it was all handed to us.
Now if you accused my kids of landing up with the best possible card in life, then you nailed it. And they realize it. But our kids also know how to take advice. It's why they are successful. In fact, they read books on how other people figured it out. If my wife and I had even average caliber parents, I could only imagine how high we could have climbed. And I get to watch that possibility by watching our kids.
looks like I should be moving to Pittsburg, KS, and take my current Salary with , I could live like a KING !
Pittsburg is a wasteland, poor weather most of the year, very impoverished area, lots of drug problems, social dysfunction, and the college doesn't even add much to the area as it has a sizable brain drain. Kansas is also a higher tax state for having low wages. Johnson County by Kansas City is the only area that is saving Kansas from being a complete southern state laggard.
The pandemic helped push cost of housing almost overnight. Add inflation and an influx of people moving here from out of state and housing has skyrocketed. However, as a landlord I have no problem getting current rents in say E. Mesa. There are still many people who can afford living here.
As far as moving from city to city or state to state or country to country. I've done it many times: age 21, 23, 24, 29, 31, 34...forget it. I really don't remember how many times I moved but it was almost always to a cheaper apartment.
Regarding moving costs: I traveled light. Two suitcases and that was it.
The last time my wife and I moved (before moving to AZ) she gave a friend $300 to help move several pieces of furniture but we were moving within the same city.
7k to move? If need be sell what you can't carry with you.
Yeah. My point was these numbers are little more than entertainment value. During the first year after we bought our house here, the "zestimate" ranged from about $500k to $900k. It seems they are constantly tweaking their pricing algorithms, and this changes not only the current estimate but also the historical estimates.
In reality one has to put their house on the market to know what it's worth. Even many people "in the business" who do real estate every day are not that good at setting prices IMO. Long time ago I wanted to get an accurate price on my house before putting it on the market. So I paid an appraiser to get a value. I told him I wanted an accurate number, as it was just for my own information. As it turns out, his price was exactly the same as what I had come up with independently, and we were both off. The house ultimately sold for 12% less.
When I sold my townhouse up in Colorado Springs 4 years ago, I found the various websites' estimates to be a reasonably good guide, as well as when I bought the house here in Sun City West.
What the online estimates don't look at are things like the individual condition of the houses. For example, does the interior need to be painted. Will carpeting need to be replaced? Is a pool table included in the sale (my case).
When I sold my townhouse up in Colorado Springs 4 years ago, I found the various websites' estimates to be a reasonably good guide, as well as when I bought the house here in Sun City West.
What the online estimates don't look at are things like the individual condition of the houses. For example, does the interior need to be painted. Will carpeting need to be replaced? Is a pool table included in the sale (my case).
It also depends on the neighborhood. If the neighborhood is filled with tract homes, the math is more accurate. In addition to what you typed, what about hearing road noise even from a couple of blocks away? Or an odd layout or maybe an older roof or air?
My home in Northern MN is way off. You have variables like the view, the quality of the beach, dirt roads or not, and the number of trees (and how many hardwoods). I just scratched the surface.
Zillow etc can be way off based on what someone listed it for (the Z value jumps when someone lists it for too much) or if someone got a deal, the value is way low for a long time (which was the case in our new home). It's just a guideline. To know the true value, it takes effort to closely watch a specific area. Smart people who are in the market to buy and look for a while eventually figured out the market at a given time. When you don't bother watching for a while, you quickly are no longer realistic in any given submarket.
I've also concluded many of the appraisals can be way off when looking at unique products too.
What the online estimates don't look at are things like the individual condition of the houses. For example, does the interior need to be painted. Will carpeting need to be replaced?
Sure, and for older houses it's even harder. Does it still have the original 1990 kitchen and baths, or have they all been remodeled? New roof? Etc...
As I mentioned, the Zestimate of our house swung by almost a factor of two during the first year we owned it. First it dropped, then it nearly doubled, then it dropped back down to a little over what we had paid. At the time (2012) there were not a lot of recent comps, so getting a value by data mining was harder than today.
At any rate, I feel these online estimates are good only for a rough number, maybe +/- 20%. For something that has lots of the same unit in the same location, with lots of recent transactions, perhaps more like +/- 10%.
Do I sound like a sheep? Unfortunately, there are too many people walking the planet that literally cannot see the writing on the wall. I offered what I would do in this situation. You think people DESERVE to live where they want. The advice is to either change the system yourself (impossible) or adapt. I don't care what people do. I got to the finish line by training for decades (living under my means). Toss it and give people your advice to keep on digging a financial hole.
I think that statement is aimed at me. I will say you don't have a clue where I came from or my wife. When you have brothers in prison (Leavenworth) , meth users who made products at their parents, several HS dropouts, sisters and stepsisters with teenage pregnancies, several on welfare, alcoholic and verbally abusive dad, then come talk with me about how easy it was. If it makes you feel better, then paint any picture you want of how it was all handed to us.
Now if you accused my kids of landing up with the best possible card in life, then you nailed it. And they realize it. But our kids also know how to take advice. It's why they are successful. In fact, they read books on how other people figured it out. If my wife and I had even average caliber parents, I could only imagine how high we could have climbed. And I get to watch that possibility by watching our kids.
Yes you do sound like a sheep when you say that whatever is dished out to you - you can only change by going along with it and doing without more things so you can save more. In this Country, we have the right to change things with our votes and can try to make our voice heard by contacting the politicians in office. We have a voice and can start to make heard by contacting news channels and any other outlet available about what is being done here in this state. We can try to change the injustice being served to citizens or we can do like you and suffer some more while continuing to be a slave to greed and not our own but somebody else's.
Six months ago I watched a story on the news about a lady that has two sons, works full time and has been living in an apartment for 5 years. Her landlord decided to up her rent $500 a month - nothing changed in the complex but they said they are getting ready to upgrade the complex. She was crying because she cant afford the increase and so her sons that have lived in one location for 5 years and now are young teens are going to have to move to a much lower income area and are at a crucial age where it is going to affect them negatively. After the interview, the complex agreed to letting her stay for 6 months while only increasing the rent to $300 a month during this time. I have thought about her and her story several times and it infuriates me. This is just ridiculous and the only reason she is going to have to go through all of this is so some person(s) can make a lot of money off her or throw her to the wolves if not.
I was not aiming this at you actually it was another poster commenting about only surrounding themselves with "positive" people. But I am aiming this at you - you keep saying that I feel helpless about my situation - I don't. I live in a 3,000 square foot home and drive a Porsche Boxster so I am doing fine. The house I live in went up $250,000 in two years. So my rent will be going up $300 this next year. That is a ridiculous increase all the way around. Will I be moving- no. But what I am saying here is that this "increase" in real estate and rents in this state is going to cause this state to change into one that I wont like. The homeless problem in LA - well it will soon be here. I don't want to have to look at people thrown out of their homes living in tents everywhere. I don't want this state to be only the haves and the very poor have nots. I want a middle class to remain here - I am a Native and I love it here. This is my home and I don't want to sit in a cloud thinking I am "special" or "better" than those that can not make a home life for themselves. I am talking about the "working" class being able to live - period. All those people you talk about that are coming to your home to do work for you - well they will not be able to live a livable life if this keeps going the way it is here. This is what I am talking about - and I also do not want to have to worry about being robbed because of the desperate people that will be unable to live while working their "minimum wage" job. Everyone starts somewhere and I want the person that checks me out at the grocery store to be able to live a livable life with their family instead of having to scrape and beg to live somewhere that is undesirable at best cause that is all they can afford. I don't want to say they are not trying hard enough because they should also have some gig work on the side - I do not know their situation. But what I know is they are working a job - full-time and they should be able to afford someplace livable. Period.
About me being lonely or not having friends as you said- this is not true and was not what I said. I said that when and if my friends hit a rough spot I do not judge them or call them Debbie downers - I am there to help them if I can and ride the storm with my moral support if that is all I can offer. I was aiming it at the comment about only surrounding yourself with people who have a lot going for them at the moment.
Yes you do sound like a sheep when you say that whatever is dished out to you - you can only change by going along with it and doing without more things so you can save more. In this Country, we have the right to change things with our votes and can try to make our voice heard by contacting the politicians in office. We have a voice and can start to make heard by contacting news channels and any other outlet available about what is being done here in this state. We can try to change the injustice being served to citizens or we can do like you and suffer some more while continuing to be a slave to greed and not our own but somebody else's.
Six months ago I watched a story on the news about a lady that has two sons, works full time and has been living in an apartment for 5 years. Her landlord decided to up her rent $500 a month - nothing changed in the complex but they said they are getting ready to upgrade the complex. She was crying because she cant afford the increase and so her sons that have lived in one location for 5 years and now are young teens are going to have to move to a much lower income area and are at a crucial age where it is going to affect them negatively. After the interview, the complex agreed to letting her stay for 6 months while only increasing the rent to $300 a month during this time. I have thought about her and her story several times and it infuriates me. This is just ridiculous and the only reason she is going to have to go through all of this is so some person(s) can make a lot of money off her or throw her to the wolves if not.
I was not aiming this at you actually it was another poster commenting about only surrounding themselves with "positive" people. But I am aiming this at you - you keep saying that I feel helpless about my situation - I don't. I live in a 3,000 square foot home and drive a Porsche Boxster so I am doing fine. The house I live in went up $250,000 in two years. So my rent will be going up $300 this next year. That is a ridiculous increase all the way around. Will I be moving- no. But what I am saying here is that this "increase" in real estate and rents in this state is going to cause this state to change into one that I wont like. The homeless problem in LA - well it will soon be here. I don't want to have to look at people thrown out of their homes living in tents everywhere. I don't want this state to be only the haves and the very poor have nots. I want a middle class to remain here - I am a Native and I love it here. This is my home and I don't want to sit in a cloud thinking I am "special" or "better" than those that can not make a home life for themselves. I am talking about the "working" class being able to live - period. All those people you talk about that are coming to your home to do work for you - well they will not be able to live a livable life if this keeps going the way it is here. This is what I am talking about - and I also do not want to have to worry about being robbed because of the desperate people that will be unable to live while working their "minimum wage" job. Everyone starts somewhere and I want the person that checks me out at the grocery store to be able to live a livable life with their family instead of having to scrape and beg to live somewhere that is undesirable at best cause that is all they can afford. I don't want to say they are not trying hard enough because they should also have some gig work on the side - I do not know their situation. But what I know is they are working a job - full-time and they should be able to afford someplace livable. Period.
About me being lonely or not having friends as you said- this is not true and was not what I said. I said that when and if my friends hit a rough spot I do not judge them or call them Debbie downers - I am there to help them if I can and ride the storm with my moral support if that is all I can offer. I was aiming it at the comment about only surrounding yourself with people who have a lot going for them at the moment.
When I replied, I assumed you were discussing other people who shouldn’t need to move because of "greedy __________". After all, I thought that because you said you already had a house. Next, I assume you made an excuse about how much it costs to move because some people don’t have someone to help. And if that’s the case, someone must be pretty lonely not to have a helping hand. Or, you tried to exaggerate to make your case. I understand there are people with health problems. And in that case, we agree. And certainly, there are people that are stuck and feel hopeless.
Furthermore, I posted that I hang with positive people and do my best to stay away from negative or troubled people. Hence my reply. In fact, we dodged family gatherings to stay away from toxic relatives. Especially for our kid's sake when they were younger. Fast forward and I can see how that parenting technique worked. I'd do it again, no question about it!
Now if you want to take on the policies (call the news, congresspeople, etc), go for it! I don’t have the energy or desire. The theoretical chances YOU are going to make a difference even with a full-time dedication are close to zero. That was my point. That’s what John’s point has been too (he might have said it 20 times in various threads). Go take on the system and tell me how it works out for you.
Yes you do sound like a sheep when you say that whatever is dished out to you - you can only change by going along with it and doing without more things so you can save more. In this Country, we have the right to change things with our votes and can try to make our voice heard by contacting the politicians in office. We have a voice and can start to make heard by contacting news channels and any other outlet available about what is being done here in this state. We can try to change the injustice being served to citizens or we can do like you and suffer some more while continuing to be a slave to greed and not our own but somebody else's.
Six months ago I watched a story on the news about a lady that has two sons, works full time and has been living in an apartment for 5 years. Her landlord decided to up her rent $500 a month - nothing changed in the complex but they said they are getting ready to upgrade the complex. She was crying because she cant afford the increase and so her sons that have lived in one location for 5 years and now are young teens are going to have to move to a much lower income area and are at a crucial age where it is going to affect them negatively. After the interview, the complex agreed to letting her stay for 6 months while only increasing the rent to $300 a month during this time. I have thought about her and her story several times and it infuriates me. This is just ridiculous and the only reason she is going to have to go through all of this is so some person(s) can make a lot of money off her or throw her to the wolves if not.
I was not aiming this at you actually it was another poster commenting about only surrounding themselves with "positive" people. But I am aiming this at you - you keep saying that I feel helpless about my situation - I don't. I live in a 3,000 square foot home and drive a Porsche Boxster so I am doing fine. The house I live in went up $250,000 in two years. So my rent will be going up $300 this next year. That is a ridiculous increase all the way around. Will I be moving- no. But what I am saying here is that this "increase" in real estate and rents in this state is going to cause this state to change into one that I wont like. The homeless problem in LA - well it will soon be here. I don't want to have to look at people thrown out of their homes living in tents everywhere. I don't want this state to be only the haves and the very poor have nots. I want a middle class to remain here - I am a Native and I love it here. This is my home and I don't want to sit in a cloud thinking I am "special" or "better" than those that can not make a home life for themselves. I am talking about the "working" class being able to live - period. All those people you talk about that are coming to your home to do work for you - well they will not be able to live a livable life if this keeps going the way it is here. This is what I am talking about - and I also do not want to have to worry about being robbed because of the desperate people that will be unable to live while working their "minimum wage" job. Everyone starts somewhere and I want the person that checks me out at the grocery store to be able to live a livable life with their family instead of having to scrape and beg to live somewhere that is undesirable at best cause that is all they can afford. I don't want to say they are not trying hard enough because they should also have some gig work on the side - I do not know their situation. But what I know is they are working a job - full-time and they should be able to afford someplace livable. Period.
About me being lonely or not having friends as you said- this is not true and was not what I said. I said that when and if my friends hit a rough spot I do not judge them or call them Debbie downers - I am there to help them if I can and ride the storm with my moral support if that is all I can offer. I was aiming it at the comment about only surrounding yourself with people who have a lot going for them at the moment.
My guess you're hoping for rent control. But what if rent control doesn't come here? If you can afford current rents than fine and for now I don't see them going up much higher. However, I don't see them dropping off much either. People will continue to move here esp. from wealthier states and I don't see this changing.
Yes, 2k a month for a 3 bed/2 bath 1500 sq. ft home is expensive for those who paid $1300 just three or four years ago. But it's not for many of moving here today.
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I will say you don't have a clue where I came from or my wife. When you have brothers in prison (Leavenworth) , meth users who made products at their parents, several HS dropouts, sisters and stepsisters with teenage pregnancies, several on welfare, alcoholic and verbally abusive dad, then come talk with me about how easy it was. If it makes you feel better, then paint any picture you want of how it was all handed to us. 
