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I can't believe this argument is still going on. I'm pretty sure most of us couldn't count all the people we know that got good jobs right out of college.
Ya THINK!?! Or maybe millions of college grads all are gaining experience working for free and THEN companies will hire them. And people are now clawing to get into the trades but those awful 300 people meandering lines to get a sniff at that single available job. It's dog-eat-dog. The horrors! And those stupid companies are going to Ivy colleges and tier 1 spots like Stanford are all getting bamboozled. Apple, Google, and others don't pull from those students. 1st, they need to get some experience. lol Mind you, when I looked at my son's Harvard Medical School classmates, my son was in the severe minority (a white male). But Bob says that's not the case. Only old money attend. And that ranking is meaningless (never mind they train at the topped ranked hospitals in the entire world by the brightest minds walking the planet. JFC. You cannot make this stuff up.
Honestly, I'm wondering if I'm being punked (a.k.a. trolled). It's about the only thing that makes sense.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 04-16-2022 at 07:40 PM..
I don't believe you hire people. Because NO ONE hires entry-level professionals jobs EVER without experience. People all across America all had to work for free as an intern. Bob even said so! So when I hired people, obviously I too had to hire engineers and tech with experience. Because BOB SAID SO!
And certainly, no companies ever go to college or vocational school and hire young entry-level professionals. That's right. Because Bob said so! LMFAO.
I'm not a leftist or a right winger, my politics are not on that spectrum. Both sides of the political spectrum do nothing about the catch-22.
I never said "NO" companies hire people with no experience. Sales jobs do. Mcjobs do. And a tiny fraction of companies do. Cronyage exists. Nepotism exists. Kids from the Ivy League can get entry level jobs without experience.
The overwhelming vast majority of graduates and career changers, on the other hand - they get the catch-22. The rest of these "entry level jobs" require experience.
Sure, per the recent couple of years: 14% of recent grads got their entry level jobs without experience. These are the ones you and the other catch-22 deniers hype into the stratosphere.
86% didn't. They're still looking. Those people don't exist in your mind. Or you say there's something wrong with them, that EIGHTY SIX PERCENT studied worthless majors like underwater basket weaving or "studies." (even the same government statistics you cite say only 6% studied those kind of majors)
You want to pretend the catch-22 doesn't exist, that's an extreme position. Far more extreme than you accuse me of.
Why should you be able to afford a studio or an 1 bed room apartment working minimum wage? Esp. in the popular Phx metro.
Get a roommate.
It's called a reasonable standard of living. You shouldn't have to take on roommates just to keep from being homeless. And not everyone is fit to be someone's roommate. People live where they live because their jobs depend on it. I suspect you lack empathy.
Then later, when things get worse, you'll say "get 2 roommates" then "get 3 roommates" then "dude! just get a better job! the catch-22 does not exist!"
Oh wait, you're a landlord. That explains your post.
I've considered that some people lack empathy. This is one reason have the "let them eat cake" attitude.
It's called a reasonable standard of living. You shouldn't have to take on roommates just to keep from being homeless. And not everyone is fit to be someone's roommate. People live where they live because their jobs depend on it. I suspect you lack empathy.
I'm well aware that life on life's terms can be difficult. However, complaining rarely changes anything.
So yes, if you can't afford to live by yourself... you'll need a roommate.
I'm not a leftist or a right winger, my politics are not on that spectrum. Both sides of the political spectrum do nothing about the catch-22.
Got ya. You are a socialist. Were you recently kicked off C-D and do you drive a semi-truck for a living? This is starting to sound familiar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell
I never said "NO" companies hire people with no experience. Sales jobs do. Mcjobs do. And a tiny fraction of companies do. Cronyage exists. Nepotism exists. Kids from the Ivy League can get entry level jobs without experience.... You want to pretend the catch-22 doesn't exist, that's an extreme position. Far more extreme than you accuse me of.
Yes. Cronyage and nepotism exist. Duh! Now follow along: earlier, I agreed with you that "catch-22" exists. I said so in post #246. And of course, there is a certain part of a legacy admittance in Ivy's. By the same token, the majority (yes, over 50%) get a massive amount of financial aid. Ivy schools have deep pockets and they reward the outliers that become the top performers' life. I'm not guessing like you are. And before you comment, OF COURSE, there are underachieving Ivy grads and overachieving community college grads. I'm talking about strong correlations.
Your earlier rant about Ivy's is misinformed and offensive to people who have come from nothing and kicked ass in life. You don't have a clue about the background of many of the students. Students are getting the top jobs because the majority of students are highly motivated and brilliant. Only someone who is ignorant would assume it's all legacy money and power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell
Sure, per the recent couple of years: 14% of recent grads got their entry level jobs without experience. These are the ones you and the other catch-22 deniers hype into the stratosphere.
86% didn't. They're still looking. Those people don't exist in your mind. Or you say there's something wrong with them, that EIGHTY SIX PERCENT studied worthless majors like underwater basket weaving or "studies." (even the same government statistics you cite say only 6% studied those kind of majors)
Using your earlier comment to Kurt, "Name and location of these so-called statistics that you posted". Meaning, cite your source.
College graduates had a rough patch at getting jobs in 2020 and 2021. COVID was the reason. It bounced back MUCH faster than anyone thought in 2022. And when you add in the recent 3M of early retirees, it absorbed those 2020 and 2021 struggling graduates. The job market is cyclical.
Here is the way it worked for me 35 years ago and it is still the same today. It's always been EASY to find an entry job you really don't want. Maybe the job is in Minot, ND, or in the middle of Kansas. Or maybe they aren't paying as well. And then there are companies that mandate X, Y, Z credentials and you are battling it out with too many people to count. Because these companies can. They are the top employers with better benefits, higher wages, and more interesting work. So yes, they can and do mandate more experience. Often, those companies attend the Flagship colleges and tier 1 programs. Smart, motivated, students that select those programs are being catered to. As in, NO EXPERIENCE is required and they get the golden ticket.
I had to "work" 40 hours a week for 3 months to land what I wanted out of school. That included 100 resumes, calling HR, networking, etc. No one ever said it was easy to get what you want. <Many people don't have the sticktoitiveness to keep it up. And they live in their mom and dad's house because they quickly get lost. That scenario is happening in 2022 as well. The difference is, that it's a lot better now.
Pride doesn't pay the bills. You might have to take that job in the fine state of OK out of the gate. Now take coaster in high school and during college and we soon realize that this person isn't driven to succeed. They give up fast. While we are stacking the odds against them, let's toss them into a degree that isn't good enough all by itself. Maybe a Communications major. Yep. Many are still struggling.
Now look at various college links and see what their placements are at. Yep! Engineers, doctors, dentists, programmers, tier 1 business majors etc etc have about 80+ percent placements. And then we have the rest of the people. And they are where they are for a reason.
It's called a reasonable standard of living. You shouldn't have to take on roommates just to keep from being homeless. And not everyone is fit to be someone's roommate. People live where they live because their jobs depend on it. I suspect you lack empathy.
Exactly, gotta love these boomers, "get a roommate" is their answer for America's housing crisis and people working starvation wages. Lets all get a roommate and shut up, instead of actually changing things in our country and making it a better place to live.
Exactly, gotta love these boomers, "get a roommate" is their answer for America's housing crisis and people working starvation wages. Lets all get a roommate and shut up, instead of actually changing things in our country and making it a better place to live.
There is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money at the top. That's a massive problem. AND, there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people that have coasted in life. And assume they "deserve" to have all of the amenities in life. Because "they work hard". Bull****. Too many people coast. And if you are struggling, tell me all about how you worked your butt off and got screwed. Look in the mirror. If you think about it, you will have your answers.
Analogy: if you are fat, you know why. If you are a drunk, you know why. Option 2: "it's not your fault". While part of that may be true (mental illness or bad parenting), people are where they are for a reason.
So like always, the truth is somewhere in between. I too would LOVE to live in the Bay Area. But I cannot afford it. And yes, I am where I am for a reason too. I could have worked harder and smarter. But that means sacrifice. ALL the while, our American economic system IS gamed as I stated in my 1st sentence. So when you worked your butt off and made the right moves in life and got screwed, I feel for you. If not, get your crap together.
Exactly, gotta love these boomers, "get a roommate" is their answer for America's housing crisis and people working starvation wages. Lets all get a roommate and shut up, instead of actually changing things in our country and making it a better place to live.
Nobody is telling you to shut up. By all means vote. However, simply complaining rarely helps. It won't change your situation.
Exactly, gotta love these boomers, "get a roommate" is their answer for America's housing crisis and people working starvation wages. Lets all get a roommate and shut up, instead of actually changing things in our country and making it a better place to live.
A few years ago I switched cities. I was offered job, the pay was good, and I figured the cost of living was a bit lower. Not by much. I was brand new, didn't know anyone. I couldn't just get a roommate. And thanks to a housing shortage, I stayed in a hotel for a month, followed by an AirBnB for nearly 3 months. That ate up alot of money. I finally got an apartment by myself. Ownership of the building changed, and then I had to find another place to live.
The whole "get a roommate" think reeks of "let 'em eat cake". Before I moved, I was living with my parents. I helped out and paid bills. Why didn't I get a roommate? The majority of people I knew were getting married. There was barely anyone reliable I could count on to be a roommate.
If you need a roommate in order to make the rent, the rent is high, period. This is why I don't want to live in San Francisco, New York or, Boston.
Here is something else. You don't have to work starvation wages to deal with rent issues. In some places, people making middle class wages end up spending a bunch of their money on rent and utilities. I always say this. You either have to pick between a very long commute, or a very high rent. Either way, you're going to spend alot of money.
I tried to change my situation by moving to another city. So far its working. However, with a population influx, demand is getting higher than supply. Rents are on the rise. It also doesn't help that Covid-19 messed up shipping and materials for building homes and apartments got more expensive.
The cost of living is going up all over the nation. I live in the southeastern USA and I've really wanted to live out West again. I wonder if I'll be able to do that considering all the horror stories regarding housing prices going up and up. Where I live housing costs are on the rise. In my case $1000 a month for rent isn't going to break me. However, I notice a pattern. The expensive apartments are the ones in short supply. You have to get on a. waiting list. And if you make even one dollar under the income threshold, the answer is NO. The places where there is more ample housing, there's a caveat: ALOT OF CRIME.
I think about this. Most people don't want to live in high crime neighborhoods. Most people aren't looking for the luxuries. Most people just want to decent, clean place to live, that is safe.
Last edited by green_mariner; 04-17-2022 at 08:52 AM..
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