The death of the Suburban dream...

[HX_Guy]

While I agree that something needs to be done to get things a bit more stable...I can't help but feel that if we start drilling here and gas drops back to $2/gallon, people will instantly forget everything we've gone through and go back to gas guzzling SUVs and non use of transit. In a very strange way, I like the lesson we are all being taught about the importance of smaller, more efficient cars as well as sprawling out.

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

While I agree that something needs to be done to get things a bit more stable...I can't help but feel that if we start drilling here and gas drops back to $2/gallon, people will instantly forget everything we've gone through and go back to gas guzzling SUVs and non use of transit. In a very strange way, I like the lesson we are all being taught about the importance of smaller, more efficient cars as well as sprawling out.

Yes indeed.
The higher prices are NECESSARY in order to move us along and get us off oil. In the long run oil is no solution, but as long as prices stay low we'll continue to slurp it down and do nothing to prepare us for the future.

After all, it's not like we haven't had ample time to see all this coming - and yet we still did next to nothing to prepare for it. - and just kept buying up those enormous gas guzzlers.

Sadly, the American people will ONLY act if it's affecting them TODAY. Warnings about some coming shortages and future higher prices mean nothing to most folks.

It's not until they actually SEE and FEEL the pain themselves that they really start doing something about it.

Ken

[borborygmi]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

While I agree that something needs to be done to get things a bit more stable...I can't help but feel that if we start drilling here and gas drops back to $2/gallon, people will instantly forget everything we've gone through and go back to gas guzzling SUVs and non use of transit. In a very strange way, I like the lesson we are all being taught about the importance of smaller, more efficient cars as well as sprawling out.

Well yes, the hope is that eventually we'll no longer be dependent upon oil for energy. I, too, am not a proponent of relentless suburban sprawl and car dependence- I wish it hadn't come to this. But reality is what it is, we are where we are, and we have to deal with the problem as it is.

I would also hope that gaining access to oil reserves here, meaning much cheaper gas prices, wouldn't create a false sense of satisfaction and deter us from that long term goal. But I really think that unless you want to see this country in an all-out depression that would last decades, assuming oil prices continue to climb well upward even from where they are now, this is something that needs to be done- fast.

[shiphead]

funny that they did an article on elk grove.I use to live in that area and let me tell you Sacramento is just as much of a burb nightmare as phoenix. They already have light rail running from far east burb town to downtown, so its not "that" bad.

Elk Grove sucks. Think cow field in the middle of no where, then a giant housing development. That's elk grove.

[Kingsnkali]

Elk Grove caught it from every direction at once. Lots of homes built and occupied right at the peak of the bubble. Rubber stamp city approval for endless tracks of new housing. Lots of Bay Area investors buying houses. And bad loans EVERYWHERE.

It will probably take at least 2 years of hell to begin to right the ship in Elk Grove. The people still there will have to ride it out. Eventually, once prices start to rise off the bottom, actual homeowners may return to these rental/abandoned home neighborhoods and bring it back to something more appealing.

As far as the stupidity of the Elk Grove planning department.....

[borborygmi]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

Yes indeed.
The higher prices are NECESSARY in order to move us along and get us off oil. In the long run oil is no solution, but as long as prices stay low we'll continue to slurp it down and do nothing to prepare us for the future.

After all, it's not like we haven't had ample time to see all this coming - and yet we still did next to nothing to prepare for it. - and just kept buying up those enormous gas guzzlers.

Sadly, the American people will ONLY act if it's affecting them TODAY. Warnings about some coming shortages and future higher prices mean nothing to most folks.

It's not until they actually SEE and FEEL the pain themselves that they really start doing something about it.

Ken

I understand what you're saying, and if this country's economy wasn't in such a miserable state already, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. However, we're in a very precarious state right now in terms of the economy, and the truth is that the technology necessary to make us oil-independent is still a long way off.

In the meantime I really think we're very likely looking at prices rising to $6 or more a gallon for gas in the upcoming years, with increasing competition for a limited resource from emerging economies like China and India. So unless you want to see this country plummet into a depression the likes of which we've never seen, I think that drilling has to be the best short-term solution. It would strengthen the dollar, it would rejuvenate the economy, it would create the opportunity to balance the trade deficit and make us an exporter rather than an importer of an extremely lucrative commodity, and above all, give us the freedom to get the F out of the middle east and never have to worry about the ridiculous political mess over there ever again.

And just hope that in the meantime, we continue our efforts to attain the technology for viable cheap alternative mass-energy solutions, not simply abandon them in our temporary comfort and return to the exurban, gas-guzzling SUV-driving lifestyle which is obviously not sustainable.

[_Charles_]

Well, we are definitely seeing a rebirth of "walkable unbanism" here in the Seattle area - and have been for quite some time (long before the recent run-up in gas prices). Downtown Seattle is BOOMING in regards to new condos - and the trend is even spreading to the various suburban centers around the area, with long-neglected suburban "downtowns" being drastically transformed (for the better in my opinion) with the addition of tons of new housing within the core's themselves.

You did not mention that those downtown condos are tiny and pricey. And I would add grossly overrated just like the rest of Seattle.

Studios 550 sq ft $375k
1 Bdrs 600-800 sq ft $425k - $500k
2 Bdrs 800 - 950 sq ft $550k - $2 million + (depending on bldg, floor, view etc).

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

You did not mention that those downtown condos are tiny and pricey. And I would add grossly overrated just like the rest of Seattle.

Studios 550 sq ft $375k
1 Bdrs 600-800 sq ft $425k - $500k
2 Bdrs 800 - 950 sq ft $550k - $2 million + (depending on bldg, floor, view etc).

Of course. Seattle is an EXPENSIVE place. Not as high as LA, Chicago, New York or DC - put expensive none-the-less.

However, it's not just in Seattle itself where this urbanization is happening. The suburban cities in the area are having it happen too - including now in little old Burien (near where I live) - where new urban condos (with businesses below and condos above are going in for MUCH less than in Seattle proper. Likewise Kent is doing this, as is Kirkland, the other East Side cities (very pricey over there though), etc, etc, etc.

This is happening all over the Puget Sound region - as it's happening across much of the nation.

Ken