I need a list of the better school systems around Phoenix.... (best neighborhood, homes)

[TransporterG]

I spent several months over the last year investigating school systems, visited dozens in my targeted area. You do NOT need private schools to get the best there is in Phoenix, unlike other cities. Here are some of my observations after visiting and researching schools (biased to central located areas and close in East Valley):

1. Madison and Arcadia are genuinely good school systems with active parents. Active parents who value education and get involved with the kids' education are the best school systems. Elementary, Middle and High schools, I have all visited, and they live up to their reputation.

2. Scottsdale schools are just okay, with the exception of Paradise Valley and Scottsdale/Arcadia. the scores on greatschools.com will show you much. I was not impressed overall with these school districts.

3. The closer-in Chandler and South Tempe school districts (Kyrene and others) are getting much better and doing well--hello, this is where Intel is--and the South Tempe/Chandler close-in areas are the ones where the many many Chinese and Indian (high value of education) graduate students who stay to work in hi-tech and raise their families. Follow the Chinese and Indians, and you will find the best education. Check out the demographics and look for % Asian. The higher the better.

3. The very best 6-12th grade education is in the form of a charter school system called Great Hearts--liberal arts education with the study of great books, latin, advanced mathematics as the core. Tempe Preparatory Academy is the oldest, best known, but they are now all over the Valley....my oldest son will attend Chandler Prep next fall. Wonderful curriculum, with a HS graduating senior will have taken BC Calculus (2nd year college calculus). Hard to believe this is free public education and in AZ no less.

4. The Kyrene school district is very good, as far as Arizona goes (Ugh!). And some of those schools are excellent (some have declined quickly over the last few years). My youngest will attend Kyrene Del Cielo Elementary (Chandler, on the border of Tempe), arguably the best elementary school in the district: average tenure of teachers, 15 years. A+ school, Excelling school, best elementary scores on AIMS and other tests. Fine community of active parents and teachers.

5. Many of the public schools are experiencing declining enrollment. One reason is the proliferation of charter schools--"public" schools that can set their own standards above the mediocre standards set by the state. Many good ones. Many mediocre. Greatschools.com is your friend here, but visit for yourself. I visited 8 or 9.

As mentioned earlier by an astute contributor, where there is money, there are values of educational quality. But the key to the best education is to find the parents that want to make something of themselves--chinese, indian. In the entire country, this is a strong indication of educational quality.
So, if you like a certain school and are "outside" the boundaries for attending the school, you can apply NOW and have a reasonable liklihood of getting in if the in-boundary students are declining. Most of the traditional public schools want more tax $ and want to keep high enrollment numbers. The downside of this is, for example, why Kyrene Middle School went from being a truly excellent school in the area a few years ago to a more mediocre one it is now--many out of district kids without having parental involvement with the school.

Just some thoughts from months of investigation.

Be proactive and ask questions.

Best,
TG

[pbenjamin]

I agree with most of what the previous poster said. I would add Arizona School for the Arts in Central Phoenix as another example of a charter school (6-12) that has top notch academics, small class sizes, high test scores, and places students at top universities.

Parental involvement is key. Paradise Valley Unifiied School District was mentioned above as being one of the better districts. This is very true in elementary grades but if you examine the test scores you see a noted dropoff in the higher grades. My experience with that district is that parental involvement more or less ends at middle school.

[Axiom]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

My experience with that district is that parental involvement more or less ends at middle school.

But is the drop off in that particular district different than in other districts at that age/grade level?

It's certainly common for parental involvement in their childrens' schools to decline at the onset of pre-teen and adolescent years. I'm sure you'll find multiple research studies on the subject if you look.

Keeping parents involved while still fostering independence and responsibility in maturing kids can be a delicate balancing act.

Of course as a parent you can always get involved in a booster organization... then they keep you close so it's more convenient to squeeze every last dollar out of you.


Just one caveat: even if you find the highest ranking school with the best test scores in the state, it's not necessarily going to be the best fit for every kid.

[jaunespinoza]

Almost half of the kids at Madison #1 are on free or reduced lunch. I had a great experience working there, but the numbers speak for themselves. http://www.azcentral.com/news/datace...lunches08.html

[KarmaPhx]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

You're right. 100 is too low unless you are talking about one of the 3500 sf McMansion boxes built a couple years back. 130 is a closer value for single stories and smaller homes. (as a barometer of school quality). It's not a perfect indicator but there is clearly a positive correlation between income of the students' parents and the quality of the school. It's the same pretty much everywhere these days.

100 is too high, not too low. The cost of homes is not a direct indicator of the quality of the schools.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by jaunespinoza

Almost half of the kids at Madison #1 are on free or reduced lunch. I had a great experience working there, but the numbers speak for themselves. 2008 free and reduced lunches by school - datacenter - azcentral.com

That list may be better correlated than the price of homes. I looked at the schools I know to be good and the ones I know to be bad and, without exception, the good ones had low (<20%) eligible for reduced lunch and all the bad ones had >50% eligible. It's not perfectly correlated and there would be wiggle room and special circumstances to consider, but overall this seems like a reasonable way to get a first indication. Good post.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

100 is too high, not too low. The cost of homes is not a direct indicator of the quality of the schools.

No, it is an INDIRECT measure - and a pretty good one at that.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Axiom

But is the drop off in that particular district different than in other districts at that age/grade level?

Yes, actually. At the time I was doing the comparison, nearby Scottsdale schools did not seem to have the same issue, i.e. the elementary scores were comparable to adjacent PV schools, but the high schools saw much higher scores than their PV counterparts.

[KarmaPhx]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

No, it is an INDIRECT measure - and a pretty good one at that.

Nope.

You could have a brand new school in somewhere like Anthem where the houses cost around $250k a piece, but that doesn't mean the school is any good. You could be in an older neighborhood, with houses that are around $100k, and still have a A+ school.

Trying to say that the cost of the homes equals the quality of the school is just plain retarded.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

Nope.

You could have a brand new school in somewhere like Anthem where the houses cost around $250k a piece, but that doesn't mean the school is any good. You could be in an older neighborhood, with houses that are around $100k, and still have a A+ school.

Trying to say that the cost of the homes equals the quality of the school is just plain retarded.

Well, believe what you want. It is absurd to argue that the best schools are not correlated (if that is too big a word for you, look it up) with the best neighborhoods. No correlation is perfect, of course. Nevertheless, the association of wealth with quality education is axiomatic (another big word you can look up). Home prices in a neighborhood are a certain indicator of wealth. You've got issues. Get over the truck thing already.