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WHOA this has gotten crazy! Thanks everyone for the insight. Ivana, that district is called Ybor City. The street no longer closes and the west end of it has a concentration of gay establishments, called "GaYbor District."
OSCOTT, there are myriad areas like that around here. Look up Ybor, SoHo, Hyde Park Village, Channelside, Davis Islands, Palma Ceia, Harbour Island, and Downtown Tampa, and International Plaza and Bay Street on wiki. Oh and Seminole Hard Rock Casino too. Plus the "Other side of the Bay" (St. Pete and surrounding areas) has tons of stuff from great beach towns (Clearwater Beach), colorful art enclaves (Gulfport), to gayborhoods (Grand Central).
So far it appears as if I was right with my fledgling assessments. Except someone mentioned Chandler, I will look that up. According to walkscore, Encanto is the most walkable 'hood in Phoenix. Anything noteworthy there? I live in the 'burbs now so please no suburban/drive to everything areas.
Wow, an OP who actually came back. You and dirtbarbie from another thread. The Encanto neighborhood is an expensive, large historic district and a true neighborhood. There are actually studio apartments, and historic courtyard buildings with history and multiple living options (1 bedroom-3, "open" floor plans, etc) along the edges of the 'hood and many "income" properties where people rent a "casita," or similar detached living space from the main house. Its a beautiful area with a huge "central park" like park. It is consider a "downtown" neighborhood since it begins at the corner of 7th Ave and McDowell Rd.
The Encanto Neighborhood encompasses roughly the same land mass as downtown Phoenix "proper" and is adjacent to even larger such compact historic districts like Willo, Roosevelt, F.Q. Story, Coronado, and on and on. It is seven blocks from the light rail stop at Central and McDowell (simple if you just count the streets and avenues using Central Avenue as a starting point) all accessible via the light rail line and near midtown, uptown and Melrose (the largest gayborhood in Phoenix for example). There is multiple bus stops around the neighborhood on McDowell, 7th Ave, and 15th Ave so you don't have to walk, bike, or "cab" it those 7 blocks in the summer, LOL! From the light rail you can reach the Christown area to Mesa, 22 miles in distance as it makes a zig zag pattern through the middle of the Valley.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 11-24-2009 at 01:27 AM..
Downtown Phoenix has a very good, and improving, walkable district. We frequently go to Diamondback and Suns games (downtown) and frequent the variety of resturants, clubs, cafes downtown.
Tempe is also great. Mill Avenue has many wonderful eating places and clubs.
I looked up this Melrose neighborhood, seems cool with nice stuff but the 7th street that is Melrose's main drag is a huge, 6 lane road. So this isn't really a walkable area.
Encanto, etc. look like nice historic districts but they are purely residential. Similar neighborhoods exist in Tampa (Seminole Heights) and while they are an important part of our character, there's no reason to go to them unless I'm selling real estate.
Thus far, here's the list of walkable entertainment districts in the Valley:
Downtown Phoenix
Old Town Scottsdale
Mill Ave. Tempe
Downtowns of Chandler, Mesa, and Glendale
Melrose (iffy because of the large road)
I looked up this Melrose neighborhood, seems cool with nice stuff but the 7th street that is Melrose's main drag is a huge, 6 lane road. So this isn't really a walkable area.
Encanto, etc. look like nice historic districts but they are purely residential. Similar neighborhoods exist in Tampa (Seminole Heights) and while they are an important part of our character, there's no reason to go to them unless I'm selling real estate.
Thus far, here's the list of walkable entertainment districts in the Valley:
Downtown Phoenix
Old Town Scottsdale
Mill Ave. Tempe
Downtowns of Chandler, Mesa, and Glendale
Melrose (iffy because of the large road)
Any more?
Biltmore, "CenPho," Midtown, Uptown, Chandler (small but historic), Westgate (Glendale there are condos, apartments, etc in the district along with the stadium, arena, theaters, shops, restaurants, etc, etc. And that is probably the largest such districts while excluding the other urban (but not "entertainment" districts). What you have to look at in Phoenix is the grid system in which the city is laid out. While the main drag through Melrose happens to be 5 lanes (not six), the actual neighborhood is not on 7th Ave but amongst the adjacent streets. 7th Ave also runs past the Encanto neighborhood and is the western boundary of downtown S. of McDowell.
Think of 7th Ave as a "main street." There are large crosswalks that are well designed for safe crossing at the small block intersections in the Melrose "shopping and club" District. I usually walk my dogs from my neighborhood Downtown to Melrose for the vet visits and their favorite store; Wag'n'Wash...It's about a three mile walk. Chompers (the Chihuahua is permitted on the light rail (in his travel crate of course), but the German Shepard is not (travel crate or not unless the larger breeds are working dogs of course). The housing, condos, apartments, parks, and such are off to the sides of 7th Ave and the neighborhood residents walk to the 7th Ave shops from their neighborhood. It would be wise to make a distinction between the Melrose District and the Historic Melrose Neighborhood and surrounding historic 'hoods like; Yaple, and North Encanto...
Also keep in mind that many of these urban/entertainment districts are huge walkable and transit centers. Downtown Phoenix ignores the neighborhoods and districts to the north; Midtown and Uptown. You can walk from the southern border of downtown, Buchanan to Dunlap (the end of the Murphy Bridle Path) which in this one stretch measures over 9 miles...you can take any of the streets off of central for miles in either direction and still be in dense, urban 'hoods (roughly 19th Ave to 16th St and on Camelback and other streets like Osborn stretching past 24th St.). This is an area larger than Manhattan, but of course much less dense than that, LOL! These corridors are also home to the best bus/transit routes in the state and some of the best metro lines around; the light rail, Thomas Rd (former green line and now Rte 29 I think), Indian School corridor, Camelback, 7th Ave and Street, Express/Rapid service and on and on.
Also, the downtown Phoenix area has a free bus service known as DASH and Tempe's free equivalent is Orbit. Old Town Scottsdale is also a very large walkable area and also meets the Fashion Square area and new condos, hotels north of Old Town. Mill Ave is the generic label most people give a huge area of Tempe. The label of "Mill" is large and dense and the entire region is linked North of Town Lake and South of the University by complex, and well planned transit. These are no small areas. The region I spoke of in central Phoenix that spans downtown, midtown, uptown, the historic districts, and other areas is known as CenPho BUT more and more, the downtown Art areas are solely coming to be called CenPho...
Hope this helps, I am out for the evening! Enjoy your weekends and hope you all had a great Thanksgiving.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 11-28-2009 at 11:07 PM..
"Biltmore, "CenPho," Midtown, Uptown, Chandler (small but historic), Westgate (Glendale there are condos, apartments, etc in the district along with the stadium, arena, theaters, shops, restaurants, etc, etc. And that is probably the largest such districts while excluding the other urban (but not "entertainment" districts). What you have to look at in Phoenix is the grid system in which the city is laid out. While the main drag through Melrose happens to be 5 lanes (not six), the actual neighborhood is not on 7th Ave but amongst the adjacent streets. 7th Ave also runs past the Encanto neighborhood and is the western boundary of downtown S. of McDowell."
Biltmore seems like a great area, especially the Fashion Park mall, but that doesn't count as an entertainment district and none of it is conducive for pedestrians except of course for the mall. So posh neighborhood + nice mall = Cool but not an entertainment/pedestrian area.
CenPho, from my understanding, is a cute name for the "core" of Phoenix, as in Downtown and surrounding mile or two which is what I am interested in. Unfortunately these core areas are to far apart to walk to from each other.
Not sure about Midtown or Uptown, do tell? Pictures, location, etc?
Chandler's on my list, the downtown seems nice if a bit small. Any other neighborhood in Chandler with density and stuff to do?
Westgate was a great find and pretty much exactly what I am looking for. Could do with less chains but overall concept is good, especially the adjacency to the pro stadiums.
The other urban neighborhoods look nice and are important, but like I said about Seminole Heights in Tampa, are of no use to me because there's nothing to do in them.
About Melrose, the 7th Ave road looked pretty big, and that's where google says the clubs and stuff is off of. Too bad because the gayborhood type area with people walking to dog boutiques sounds awesome. That is until someone's SUV hits me.
Biltmore seems like a great area, especially the Fashion Park mall, but that doesn't count as an entertainment district and none of it is conducive for pedestrians except of course for the mall. So posh neighborhood + nice mall = Cool but not an entertainment/pedestrian area.
I am keeping myself awake until 7am to wait for my sig. other, so I'll fight off the need to sleep by typing. But as for someone who's never been to Phoenix (or not too familiar) you make a lot of assumptions as fact. However, the Biltmore area is very pedestrian friendly area and is an entertainment area for sure. Aside from the mall and the posh neighborhoods are bars, upscale clubs, theaters (across from the Biltmore in the Esplanade connected by a pedestrian tunnel under Camelback Rd. The area is also home to world renowned spas, resorts and hotels like The Ritz Carlton, The Biltmore Resort and Spa, and is located about three miles from the Central and Camelback light rail stop. This area is home to thousands of condos/lofts/mid-rise housing flats throughout the neighborhood with the Optima and Camelview as the most visible and exclusive along Camelback Rd. We usually take a cab or the bus to the Esplanade, Biltmore, Optima, East Camelback, etc areas or if we walk we traverse one of the neighborhoods north or south of Camelback or just walk Camelback as some cool and unique spots are found on the road. Note, the limited parking available along Camelback Rd and thus require some walking for many people.
Biltmore/Camelback Rd. Pedestrian Tunnel:
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CenPho, from my understanding, is a cute name for the "core" of Phoenix, as in Downtown and surrounding mile or two which is what I am interested in. Unfortunately these core areas are to far apart to walk to from each other.
CenPho is a name started by the artists that were the first "urban" pioneers in many areas of Central Phoenix. Hardly cute as this is how such neighborhood designations begin and developed with the major First Friday ArtWalks as CenPho's center piece and mass monthly pilgrimage. This is more "organic" than LoDo (which is really just a combination of new development mixed with a part of one of the oldest town sites in Denver), SoDo, whatever modern "Do" has arisen in other cities as a play on SoHo in NYC, since no mass corporate real estate project or single development had a hand in creating the designation and is attributed solely to unique community forces.
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Not sure about Midtown or Uptown, do tell? Pictures, location, etc?
Midtown and Uptown are home to high-rises and other dense office building development along Central Ave. Among that concentration of office space, are some of the region's most densely populated neighborhoods. This is part of Phoenix' CBD (central business district) which is one of the most concentrated CBD in the country; in fact only Virginia Beach, Manhattan, and Las Vegas (the strip) have a higher concentration of the metro workforce. Within a 3 mile radius of downtown, nearly 30% of the entire metro area workforce is centered here, and within a 10 mile radius 78.6% of the entire metro workforce work within that distance of downtown. Here is a link to a youtube video of the light rail along Central Ave. traversing Midtown; note in the video that Midtown begins among the high-rises on the right and the filming was done from a high-rise condo building; the high-rises continue into Uptown along with condos and lofts/apartments/historic districts. To the south and in the distance is the high-rise core of downtown Phoenix. Just as a comparison, downtown Tampa has a resident population of 2,500 people as of this year; in the one block section of the light rail stop in the video, more than a thousand more people live in a 2 block section of Midtown Phoenix (nearly 4,000) adjacent to that light rail stop. The condo building next to the station (Tapestry on Central) and across from the historic and world renowned Heard Museum (the largest collection of Native American art and culture in the world) and close to PAM (The Phoenix Art Museum) and historic, beautiful Phoenix Theater (a performing arts center) are the high-rise condo/loft/flat Phoenix Tower, Embassy Tower, Regent Tower, Stella, Artisan Midtown, and many more; one of these towers is the building where the video was recorded. The Tapestry and ONE of the highrise towers near the LRT station alone compromise nearly 1,000 units and over 2,000 residents in less than a combined block. With the 2006 data from WalkScore (before light rail and before many of the other housing units were available) gave this area of Midtown a 78 out of 100; designated as Very Walkable. I'd expect this ranking to be nearly 90 or higher today and considered a "Walker's Paradise," LOL!
Most of Uptown and Midtown from the air, downtown further south and not pictured:
This is a "centered" pic of Midtown on Central Ave and McDowell...
A few high-rises in Midtown taken from Encanto Park in the Encanto Historic District:
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Chandler's on my list, the downtown seems nice if a bit small. Any other neighborhood in Chandler with density and stuff to do?
I am not very familiar with much of Chandler and am assuming that this is the only area of Chandler with some density...I could be wrong though.
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The other urban neighborhoods look nice and are important, but like I said about Seminole Heights in Tampa, are of no use to me because there's nothing to do in them.
Not sure what other urban neighborhoods you mean, but there sure aren't many nightclubs in areas like Encanto, Willo, or F.Q. Story, however, there are other urban/entertainment within the neighborhoods like people watching (an activity you listed), parks (like Encanto, a HUGE park nearly the size of Central Park and with like amenities; restaurants, historic structures, a small amusement park, lagoons with paddle boats, etc). There are restaurants, bars, and such in and on the perimeter of the neighborhoods as well. Also remember that these urban neighborhoods are blocks from downtown, uptown, midtown, Melrose, and other such districts and blocks from the light rail and other transit options.
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About Melrose, the 7th Ave road looked pretty big, and that's where google says the clubs and stuff is off of. Too bad because the gayborhood type area with people walking to dog boutiques sounds awesome. That is until someone's SUV hits me.
LOL, I completely understand your concern, but if you look at police records and such you'll notice an absence of such incidents due to the design and historic character of the area. The avenue was laid out before the 40's after all. Also, the crosswalks and sidewalks are well designed. Sidewalks are largely separated from the road and crosswalks are designed with concepts from large avenue and Blvds from Tokyo and NYC; the crossing is painted in an eye-catching design to get drivers attentions and lights are at major cross walks despite no major intersections; these lights flash multiple signals and large overhead lights for red and yellow; note there is NO green light as this makes drivers pay attention to the pedestrian and thus can only continue after the red light (both solid and flashing) expire. The canal pedestrian walkways along the Grand Canal also connect Melrose to Uptown Phoenix and the light rail stops like the one at Central and Campbell one block south of the Grand Canal. Parking is extremely limited at many of the popular shops, restaurants, and boutiques and thus walking is a major factor. Some popular spot like the Copper Star Coffee house only have a few spots available, LOL! Same for the dog boutique I take my pets. Copper Star was an old gas station with two pumps converted into its current condition. A cool brick building that was well preserved as is the case with many buildings in Melrose. The only real "parking" spaces at Copper Star are around the stalls for the old gas pumps (Copper Star and Wag'n Wash are across the street from each other which is a tiny street off of 7th Ave that goes into the Historic Melrose District):
Last edited by fcorrales80; 11-29-2009 at 08:11 AM..
I've been to Tampa a few times. I forget what it was called there was some like huge street that they blocked off to traffic that was nothing but bars dozens of them-including a few "wayyyy" alternative places like cross-dressers and the like and shady dudes selling Cuban cigars on the street. For the life of me I cannot remember the name. It was a cool place (of course I was a tad younger then too). If that is the type of area you are thinking, you won't find anything on that scale in Arizona-closest you will come is the places folks already identified.
Ebor City, not the place to be a night, its right next to the Ghetto
"Biltmore, "CenPho," Midtown, Uptown, Chandler (small but historic), Westgate (Glendale there are condos, apartments, etc in the district along with the stadium, arena, theaters, shops, restaurants, etc, etc. And that is probably the largest such districts while excluding the other urban (but not "entertainment" districts). What you have to look at in Phoenix is the grid system in which the city is laid out. While the main drag through Melrose happens to be 5 lanes (not six), the actual neighborhood is not on 7th Ave but amongst the adjacent streets. 7th Ave also runs past the Encanto neighborhood and is the western boundary of downtown S. of McDowell."
Biltmore seems like a great area, especially the Fashion Park mall, but that doesn't count as an entertainment district and none of it is conducive for pedestrians except of course for the mall. So posh neighborhood + nice mall = Cool but not an entertainment/pedestrian area.
CenPho, from my understanding, is a cute name for the "core" of Phoenix, as in Downtown and surrounding mile or two which is what I am interested in. Unfortunately these core areas are to far apart to walk to from each other.
Not sure about Midtown or Uptown, do tell? Pictures, location, etc?
Chandler's on my list, the downtown seems nice if a bit small. Any other neighborhood in Chandler with density and stuff to do?
Westgate was a great find and pretty much exactly what I am looking for. Could do with less chains but overall concept is good, especially the adjacency to the pro stadiums.
The other urban neighborhoods look nice and are important, but like I said about Seminole Heights in Tampa, are of no use to me because there's nothing to do in them.
About Melrose, the 7th Ave road looked pretty big, and that's where google says the clubs and stuff is off of. Too bad because the gayborhood type area with people walking to dog boutiques sounds awesome. That is until someone's SUV hits me.
I think you are overall fairly accurate in your observations.
Here is where I agree:
Biltmore: Not really a night life area. More high end restaurants, jewelry store driven and not so much known for clubbing. Not aware of destinations beyond the fashion mall or shopping centers that are appealing walking destinations. However it does seem that you can make an event of strolling through neighborhoods as fcorrales suggests. Everyones idea of entertainment is different.
Have no idea what the heck Cenpho is: I never heard of it until it was brought up here.
Chandler: correct - small downtown, not really a nightlife area - housing surrounding the small downtown not the most desirable place to live within walking distance. Same goes for Glendale downtown.
Westgate: Not to be confused with downtown Glendale. Downtown glendale is the antique capital of the area and has no real nightlife. Westgate is sort of walkable but you wont see many people walking around there. There is some walking going on near the stadium but other bars and hangouts are split up by loop 101, not impossible to walk if you like a little adventure.
Overall I dont think your post seems like you assumed too much as other posters have said. You sound realistic and if you come here knowing what to expect, you will enjoy it more than if you come here with an over hyped vision.
Thanks, for someone out of town I believe I am doing well here.
Pictures are very good to further the discussion. Where does that tunnel come from/lead to?
Also, where are the currently running rail stops?
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