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It costs an average of 35 million per mile to build a light-rail in the U.S. The Phoenix light-rail cost 70 million per mile. That's twice the national average.
"but the line itself will bring in an estimated 17 billion $$$"
The line does not generate one dime. It costs millions per year to operate above ticket sales. How does the light-rail generate 17 billion?
Yes and no , it does and doesn't , the average can vary region to region. In my state its been as low as 2 million per mile and as high as 10 million. Catenary costs alot , it has to be done by hand, most cities use concrete ties and beds , that costs alot. Useless they use existing lines or tracks it will always cost alot. The Electric sensors that need to inbeded into the tracks cost alot. Signal control system cost a certain amount depending on what type they use. The Rolling stock costs alot and usually makes up 40% of the cost. Stations make up to 60% of the cost , Crossing sometimes up to 20%, that varies. Phoenix's Light Rail over the next decade will generate at least 17 billion $$$ in TOD's
Phoenix does not need commuter rail. People work all over the Valley. So while a commuter rail line might be advantageous to someone who lives in Tolleson but works in DT Phoenix, it will do nothing for someone living in Tolleson who works in Surprise.
Commuter rail works MUCH better where there is a specific employment node or activity node (Manhattan in NYC, Downtown LA, Chicago Loop, etc.)
I do not support commuter rail, or rail of any type in the Valley AT ALL. We are a car-oriented metropolitan area and our transit dollars need to go to putting in more freeways or buying some new buses.
Phoenix does not need commuter rail. People work all over the Valley. So while a commuter rail line might be advantageous to someone who lives in Tolleson but works in DT Phoenix, it will do nothing for someone living in Tolleson who works in Surprise.
Commuter rail works MUCH better where there is a specific employment node or activity node (Manhattan in NYC, Downtown LA, Chicago Loop, etc.)
I do not support commuter rail, or rail of any type in the Valley AT ALL. We are a car-oriented metropolitan area and our transit dollars need to go to putting in more freeways or buying some new buses.
The trend is back to rail based transportation here in the USA. Frankly; I like it myself (just wish the Light Rail extended a few miles further east to near where I live (Mormon Temple area)
One thing that not many people realize is that quite a few young people have no desire to even learn how to drive............which does not bode well for the auto industry here in the USA. Oh well--------and, I fix cars for a living.
It's obvious (and expected) that there are differing opinions on what kind of transportation modes should be funded. Some want more freeways, some want more transit (such as buses and rail). The problem is that there is NO money right now for more freeways or transit ... but there is an alternative. I'd like to suggest that all forms of transportation be turned over to private enterprise, and those who want more freeways can pay for them via toll roads. Those who want more transit options can pay via user fees. It really amounts to the same type of funding: no tax burden, and the government won't be involved in building or funding of these amenities (making way for less costly, more efficient construction).
I think most all of us want the Phoenix metro area to have good transportation options. I favor BOTH roads and transit (including rail), but I don't trust ADOT or any government agency to handle these projects based on their past reputation of mis handling the allocated funds and the completion dates. None of these amenities are free, folks. Some people like to claim that freeways are free, and that's the way they should remain ... however, the way the current system works, all of us are paying for them in one way or the other!
I'd like to suggest that all forms of transportation be turned over to private enterprise, and those who want more freeways can pay for them via toll roads. Those who want more transit options can pay via user fees. It really amounts to the same type of funding: no tax burden, and the government won't be involved in building or funding of these amenities (making way for less costly, more efficient construction).
While this isn't my preferred option it does make sense at least. There are so many people who think that roads are a god given right and always must be funded. If people saw how much roads were subsidized by the government (just like alternate forms of transit), maybe they'd think differently. My dad for example refuses to drive on toll roads (and will go way out of his way) because he thinks that they should be free - I guess that's the predominant attitude of the older generations though - they're the ones who built all this infrastructure based around cars and epitomized the car culture.
While this isn't my preferred option it does make sense at least. There are so many people who think that roads are a god given right and always must be funded. If people saw how much roads were subsidized by the government (just like alternate forms of transit), maybe they'd think differently. My dad for example refuses to drive on toll roads (and will go way out of his way) because he thinks that they should be free - I guess that's the predominant attitude of the older generations though - they're the ones who built all this infrastructure based around cars and epitomized the car culture.
Tollroads would be a mistake under the present system because we are being taxed for the construction and upkeep of non-toll highways.
Creating tollroads and keeping the public-funded freeways would be a double whammy, many people would be overwhelmed by the daily cost, especially people who are living paycheck to paycheck.
I prefer the way we all pay for freeways and public transportation and no tollroads or privatization.
"The reliability and quality of wiki is such that colleges and universities will not accept wiki citations"
Wikipedia is more accurate than many things colleges will accept as citations.
Errors are found everywhere... heck, just look at today's AZ Republic, you'll find many. That's why all the things you read should be done so with a critical eye. People should look into things for themselves.
So should Wikipedia be used as a source? Absolutely! But should it be used as an only source? No (nor should the newspaper or the evening news).
The reason I used the Wikipedia links is because the information is presented in an easy-to-find way. However, I did verify the information to be true. I recommend others do the same.
"Phoenix's Light Rail over the next decade will generate at least 17 billion $$$ in TOD's"
Please explain how.
The light-rail may end up costing 17 billion. How will it generate any money?
"Commuter rail works MUCH better where there is a specific employment node or activity node (Manhattan in NYC, Downtown LA, Chicago Loop, etc.). We are a car-oriented metropolitan area and our transit dollars need to go to putting in more freeways or buying some new buses."
It simply won't work here. Will some ride it? Sure. But at what cost? How much do we all need to pay so a few benefit from it? The cost for a passenger-rail network in Phoenix will run somewhere around 30-50 billion. That's a heck-of-a-lot of money! And, at best, 2% of commuters will use it.
Like I said in an earlier post, for most, it would be just eye-candy. "Hey, look at the nice train we have here!" After awhile, the paint fades, the tracks rust, the stations get pee'd on by the bums, graffiti finds it's way onto things, the whole system wears. Then it won't be eye-candy anymore... just a tax-sucking eye-sore.
Rail system? is that the same as "light rail"? I hope not! that light rail is OK for sight seeing but don't expect to get anywhere in any short time, to many stops. We need something like the Bay Area Rapid Transit rail, aka BART. Bart works great and I've seen the other rail systems that have the rail above and the stations under ground with mini malls rented to vendors, much better then putting stops between traffic lanes in the heat of summer. I've been here for over 35 years and when it's hot theirs no such thing as getting use to it, more like bare with it.
Yea it's really convenient compared to the bus if you have to go say from mesa to downtown. As far as jobs I think it helps out A LOT, people who live in mesa and dont have a car can now take a job further because the light rail is faster than the bus, and it runs later. I bet a commuter rail system tho would help a lot more, going further than the light rail, distance wouldn't be a problem because with less stops you'd get to where your trying to go faster.
"The reliability and quality of wiki is such that colleges and universities will not accept wiki citations"
Wikipedia is more accurate than many things colleges will accept as citations.
Errors are found everywhere... heck, just look at today's AZ Republic, you'll find many. That's why all the things you read should be done so with a critical eye. People should look into things for themselves.
So should Wikipedia be used as a source? Absolutely! But should it be used as an only source? No (nor should the newspaper or the evening news).
The reason I used the Wikipedia links is because the information is presented in an easy-to-find way. However, I did verify the information to be true. I recommend others do the same.
"Phoenix's Light Rail over the next decade will generate at least 17 billion $$$ in TOD's"
Please explain how.
The light-rail may end up costing 17 billion. How will it generate any money?
"Commuter rail works MUCH better where there is a specific employment node or activity node (Manhattan in NYC, Downtown LA, Chicago Loop, etc.). We are a car-oriented metropolitan area and our transit dollars need to go to putting in more freeways or buying some new buses."
It simply won't work here. Will some ride it? Sure. But at what cost? How much do we all need to pay so a few benefit from it? The cost for a passenger-rail network in Phoenix will run somewhere around 30-50 billion. That's a heck-of-a-lot of money! And, at best, 2% of commuters will use it.
Like I said in an earlier post, for most, it would be just eye-candy. "Hey, look at the nice train we have here!" After awhile, the paint fades, the tracks rust, the stations get pee'd on by the bums, graffiti finds it's way onto things, the whole system wears. Then it won't be eye-candy anymore... just a tax-sucking eye-sore.
You are completely wrong, The light rail has done way better than they expected which is why there is even talk about a commuter rail in the first place.
We are a city built on the car, but with the price of gas and the traffic from more and more people coming, people need alternatives. I can bet you don't take the light rail daily because you would see what im talking about. Even if gas isn't through the roof, why not spend 55 bucks for a month pass instead of 200 or more a month in gas? And as far as the graffiti thing I think in the back of your mind ur comparing the valley to places its nothing like, chicago, NY etc, the light rail has been running for a year, and the only graffiti I seen was on the news when a guy got caught and arrested. There are cameras on the light rail, NY and CHI subways are old as hell and they really don't keep them up as well as the light rail.
I'd like to hear opinions of people who actually take public transportation, and have some idea of what is going on. Some people have their car, their home, and their job, and all they do is oppose higher taxes ALL THE TIME, instead of focusing on the loss of the small amount of money coming from you, try to see the side you and the community can benefit from. You don't HAVE to take your car everywhere. You'd be surprised at how much better of a day you have at work when you can relax, sip come coffee and spend a little time on your laptop on your commute.
Even if gas isn't through the roof, why not spend 55 bucks for a month pass instead of 200 or more a month in gas?
Not only gas but the other costs incident to car ownership can be cut down if you go from a 2 car family to a 1 car family, or completely get rid of your car, no insurance bills, no maintenance & repairs, no traffic tickets, depreciation - all that stuff adds up fast but people don't realize it because they're just so used to paying it.
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