East Liberty becoming a mixed-income success story (Lawrenceville, Penn: for sale, leases)

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yep, that falls under the heading of what I called Rapid Bus.

ah, I thought Rapid bus included stations and dedicated ROW, etc.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Maybe, but I don't see that being obvious. If you want to go all the way to Downtown from East Liberty, you can use the Busway. If you want to go to Lower Lawrenceville or the Strip, you might want a new rapid option, but then it doesn't really add much value for it to continue on through the Strip to Downtown.

right but I think you're getting distracted by endpoints, the idea would be seat turnover for intermediate points poorly served by the busway. not sure why it wouldn't add value. you'd turn seats over since it would be a good connection from the strip to the incline via downtown. and as a tourist, you may well prefer the one seat ride or transferring, or perhaps you're going from the incline to picolo forno (or some such place). or downtown to the brillobox or chp. with a bus, it really wouldn't add enormous costs like it would with a streetcar.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I honestly don't understand the primacy you are giving to East Liberty. It is one local node, but people are also going to want to go back and forth between that area and Oakland, or the North Side, or Squirrel Hill, or Millvale, or Highland Park, and so on. Again, I have no inherent problem with a rapid connection to East Liberty, but it is only one of many such connections one could wish for.

right, but the costs are relatively low. skip stop operation just requires new signs or even stickers at the skipped stops. just because other areas need such improvements doesn't mean you shouldn't improve these. you don't need an expensive consultant, it's something any transit agency can do. I'd guess the rapid bus to oakland will be much more than skip stop or even transit first. and, btw, this is a thread about east liberty which would explain why I mentioned it here.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

ah, I thought Rapid bus included stations and dedicated ROW, etc.

It is intended to be flexible and could include elements like that in some cases, but it starts just with the sorts of mild BRT measures you were citing.

not sure why it wouldn't add value. you'd turn seats over since it would be a good connection from the strip to the incline via downtown. and as a tourist, you may well prefer the one seat ride or transferring

But big picturewise, there are a gazillion different routes like this--combinations of possible common tourist destinations on roughly opposite sides of the Strip. If they go with a buslane-type approach for rapid transit in the Strip, I don't necessarily have a problem with a few such bus routes being scheduled, but they are peripheral to actually providing good service for this area.

just because other areas need such improvements doesn't mean you shouldn't improve these. . . . and, btw, this is a thread about east liberty which would explain why I mentioned it here.

Sure, and I think I have been clear about not having a problem with some sort of Rapid Bus route between East Liberty and the Riverfront.
But my point is that from an East Liberty perspective, that would be the clear priority. A further extension of that router to Downtown would be a lot less important because East Liberty already has a rapid route to Downtown--in fact further routing from Downtown to any of the many possible destinations that could be reached from Downtown could use the Busway, and it isn't clear that East Liberty would benefit from routing that potential traffic through the Riverfront first instead.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is intended to be flexible and could include elements like that in some cases, but it starts just with the sorts of mild BRT measures you were citing.

I think it'd be useful to separate the ideas. one is BRT, the other is enhanced bus. very different.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But big picturewise, there are a gazillion different routes like this--combinations of possible common tourist destinations on roughly opposite sides of the Strip. If they go with a buslane-type approach for rapid transit in the Strip, I don't necessarily have a problem with a few such bus routes being scheduled, but they are peripheral to actually providing good service for this area.

it's not peripheral, it's providing good service to a variety of users.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Sure, and I think I have been clear about not having a problem with some sort of Rapid Bus route between East Liberty and the Riverfront.
But my point is that from an East Liberty perspective, that would be the clear priority. A further extension of that router to Downtown would be a lot less important because East Liberty already has a rapid route to Downtown--in fact further routing from Downtown to any of the many possible destinations that could be reached from Downtown could use the Busway, and it isn't clear that East Liberty would benefit from routing that potential traffic through the Riverfront first instead.

I don't think you need rapid bus, you need frequent, reliably, and reasonably fast. it isn't that far away. again, I think you are being misled by the endpoints. it's not about east liberty to downtown so much as turnover. I don't really agree with your busway point and I certainly don't agree that it isn't clear that east liberty, or any other area for that matter, wouldn't benefit. in fact, there is a bus that already does it, which is why IO suggested it simply be rebranded, beefed up, and extended.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

I think it'd be useful to separate the ideas. one is BRT, the other is enhanced bus. very different.

Except the same route could use both sets of technologies on different segments respectively. And over time, you could upgrade more sections.

I don't really agree with your busway point

You can feel as you like, but that is why people in East Liberty aren't going to care much whether or not "beefed up" service from East Liberty to the Riverfront continues on to Downtown using a common ROW with whatever rapid service ends up serving the Riverfront to Downtown. But the "beefed up" service to the Riverfront itself they might appreciate.

[BrianTH]

Courtesy of a poster at another forum, a website about the new project:

BLASIER URBAN LLC

Including a rendering:



It is hard to be sure, but it looks to me like they intend to incorporate some of the historic facades along Penn, which is great.

Edit: These better renderings make that quite clear:

[BrianTH]

A little reminder of what is there right now:

pittsburgh - Google Maps

[chielgirl]

Please note that there's a difference between East Liberty and Highland Park.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

Please note that there's a difference between East Liberty and Highland Park.

There is indeed, although I think the time is soon approaching, if it hasn't already arrived, in which proximity to East Liberty will be considered a selling point and not a drawback.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

There is indeed, although I think the time is soon approaching, if it hasn't already arrived, in which proximity to East Liberty will be considered a selling point and not a drawback.

As a mostly almost 60 year resident of Highland Park, I think you're dreaming.

[BrianTH]

From the brochure:

NOW LEASING THE BEST NEW OFFICE SPACE IN TOWN.
IN THE CENTER OF EAST LIBERTY'S DOWNTOWN,
A NEW TAKE ON PITTSBURGH'S URBAN OFFICE LIFESTYLE.

Ride your bicycle, walk, take the busway or drive and park to work. Take a walk to
Whole Foods, Casbah, Mad Mex, Buffalo Blues, Plum. Dinette, brgr, Spoon, Paris 66 or
Salt for lunch or dinner. Walk over to Target to run an errand or Trader Joes for a bag
of last minute groceries. Start your morning with a chocolate croissant and coffee
downstairs at The Odeon Café or grab a cocktail, dinner and a movie downstairs at the
Spotlight Theatre after a workout at Urban Active just a few blocks down the street.

The dream is spreading fast. And these people are willing to bet $18 million on it becoming a reality.