Why does the Hill District get MORE from the Penguins? (Fox Chapel: subsidized, tax)

[rhondee]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I am lost about how the Hill District can ask for anything from the Penguins? Are they not happy that the Pen's play right there? Isn't it enough? They want more? I don't get it.

I don't get it either because neither the Consul Center as well as the old Mellon Arena are located in the Hill but technically, are in the Downtown or a.k.a. the Central Business District neighborhood.
If any residents of any neighborhood lay claim to getting " first dibs" on employment opportunities associated with the arena it should be downtown residents. The article below clearly states that Mellon Arena is located in the downtown neighborhood-not the Hill.

Downtown Pittsburgh - Downtown Neighborhood of Pittsburgh

[pman]

people who live next to power plabts often get discounted power. such deals are nothing new and its great to hear its working. otoh building a subway crapwich.shop isnt going to rebuild the lower hill

[Jrn14]

Honestly very very few people live that close to either arena... there aren't many houses or apartments there and the ones that are there are more upscale.... Like previoious poster said these arena's are on the borderline of the hill and downtown... I'm sure the hockey games don't keep the average hill resident up at night.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Jrn14

Honestly very very few people live that close to either arena... there aren't many houses or apartments there and the ones that are there are more upscale.... Like previoious poster said these arena's are on the borderline of the hill and downtown... I'm sure the hockey games don't keep the average hill resident up at night.

of course, the land was taken and the neighborhood destroyed. it's also cut off by the lack of access. perhaps it's more about not really liking the people who live in the hill. wouldn't want them to have jobs. if you'd like to prove that downtown residents are being turned down for jobs at or near the consol, be my guest.
seriously, not sure why anyone gives a crap. you should be more concerned with the schlock the pens are trying to pass off as development IMO.

[gg]

Originally Posted by pman

of course, the land was taken and the neighborhood destroyed. it's also cut off by the lack of access. perhaps it's more about not really liking the people who live in the hill. wouldn't want them to have jobs. if you'd like to prove that downtown residents are being turned down for jobs at or near the consol, be my guest.
seriously, not sure why anyone gives a crap. you should be more concerned with the schlock the pens are trying to pass off as development IMO.

What a pathetic post. The Hill is cut off? Cut off from what? There is an arena in the way to access downtown? Really? You can't walk by it, I guess. The are was destroyed by the residents PERIOD. The people that live there need to create a nice place for themselves like everyone else does. Aspinwall is cut off and it seems to do okay. Regent Square's location isn't all that great and it does well. The Hill is as prime as it gets. Right next to the city and much of it has a view of downtown. Cut off and destroyed. What a crock of crap!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by rhondee

The article below clearly states that Mellon Arena is located in the downtown neighborhood-not the Hill.

That's what the "official" Downtown map says, but that map is very a-historical in this respect.

Historically, that area was considered part of the Lower Hill, and it was in fact on the Lower Hill street grid. It is also topographically continuous with the Hill but distinct from Downtown (a fact which has been enhanced by Crosstown).

But recently, the Census has included the Arena site in the Downtown census tract (a decision which had little practical significance, since no one lived in the Arena site). Meanwhile, the "official" Pittsburgh neighborhoods now conform to the Census tracts, so the "official" Downtown map includes the Arena site.

But again, that inclusion of the Arena site in the Downtown census tract has no historical basis, and in fact really no practical significance. So personally, I don't think this essentially arbitrary decision by the Census should trump the actual history of the area or its potential future relation to other neighborhoods.

By the way, there are other such cases in Pittsburgh ("official" neighborhood boundaries falling along Census tracts that don't really have a historical or practical basis). For example, according to the "official" map, Friendship only extends as far west as Graham Street, even though many people think of Friendship as extending much farther west (say to around Gross Street). Again, that is because the relevant census tract ends at Graham.

[BrianTH]

Just a reminder:

Before:



After:



Claiming that sort of mass destruction will have no effect on surrounding neighborhoods goes against everything we have learned about city development in the last 50 years, but some people don't like to learn.

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

What a pathetic post. The Hill is cut off? Cut off from what? There is an arena in the way to access downtown? Really? You can't walk by it, I guess. The are was destroyed by the residents PERIOD. The people that live there need to create a nice place for themselves like everyone else does. Aspinwall is cut off and it seems to do okay. Regent Square's location isn't all that great and it does well. The Hill is as prime as it gets. Right next to the city and much of it has a view of downtown. Cut off and destroyed. What a crock of crap!

you're calling me pathetic but you have no idea what you are talking about. yeah, the residents of the lower hill got together and demolished their own neighborhood for acres of surface parking. you obviously have no idea about urban living if you consider traipsing across acres of parking "access." brians photographical evidence shows that yoru claims are complete nonsense. you'd probably complain that the same people were on welfare because they didn't have jobs. yet are you complaining that the very wealthy owners got sweetheart deals? no, they deserve their handouts. seriously, get over it, helping people in a downtrodden neighborhood find gainful employment isn't nearly the worst thing. much worse would be the continued depressed state of the hill and, more particularly, shoddy redevelopment. in 30 years what is built will still be there, the people who just got hired at TGI friday's may have other jobs or will be retired.

[gg]

Originally Posted by pman

you're calling me pathetic but you have no idea what you are talking about. yeah, the residents of the lower hill got together and demolished their own neighborhood for acres of surface parking. you obviously have no idea about urban living if you consider traipsing across acres of parking "access." brians photographical evidence shows that yoru claims are complete nonsense. you'd probably complain that the same people were on welfare because they didn't have jobs. yet are you complaining that the very wealthy owners got sweetheart deals? no, they deserve their handouts. seriously, get over it, helping people in a downtrodden neighborhood find gainful employment isn't nearly the worst thing. much worse would be the continued depressed state of the hill and, more particularly, shoddy redevelopment. in 30 years what is built will still be there, the people who just got hired at TGI friday's may have other jobs or will be retired.

So you have to walk by a parking lot to access the city.

I am sure some outside people will invest in the Hill at some point. It has already happened around the Civic Arena. Big money will bail the place out, but it takes time and East Liberty is on the slate right now. Maybe after that is done and the big money people make more money, they will tackle the Hill to make even more money. Takes time.

Also, look at all the crap the Penguins had to go through to build that new arena from the Hill residents. They don't exactly make it easy on investors.

[UKyank]

Thats nothing, someone built a d*mn river seperating me from downtown.