Law for minors in bars and taverns (McDonald, Penn: student loans, school)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

It does. I remember a few years ago 100 college presidents asked congress the lower the drinking age because they believed it encouraged bindge drinking and those trashy frat parties that get put of hand. Imagine how much less of a taboo alcohol would be if young adults could buy it and not chug it everytime they had the chance.

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

On a slightly related point, do you know of any studies that compare drinking incidents between 18-21 year olds in the US compared to other countries where the age is lower? I think it would be interesting to see if places where drinking at a younger age isn't taboo have less incidents or overdrinking health issues.

I have studied underage drinking a lot. Those college presidents just wanted to make their job easier. There is no scientific evidence to support what they are saying. It is a huge myth that there are fewer drinking problems in countries with a lower drinking age, e.g. many European countries. There was just an article about that on the NPR website recently.

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

CDC - Fact Sheets-Underage Drinking - Alcohol

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Docu...ngBehavior.pdf (This guy is the "guru" of underage drinking research)

French Lessons: Why Letting Kids Drink At Home Isn't 'Tres Bien' : Shots - Health Blog : NPR

[ex-burgher]

I saw that NPR article and thought it was too anecdotal. One the one hand they were talking about the increase among young people in binge drinking vodka and hard liquors - This is a cultural change which could be from a British influence. The article appears to blame children being allowed tastes of wine at home when this has always been the case in France. While I agree that alcoholism is just as much a problem in France, the recent increase in binge drinking addressed in the article is NOT due to the French cultural traditions they mention. I have a lot of French friends and all thought the article rubbish.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

I saw that NPR article and thought it was too anecdotal. One the one hand they were talking about the increase among young people in binge drinking vodka and hard liquors - This is a cultural change which could be from a British influence. The article appears to blame children being allowed tastes of wine at home when this has always been the case in France. While I agree that alcoholism is just as much a problem in France, the recent increase in binge drinking addressed in the article is NOT due to the French cultural traditions they mention. I have a lot of French friends and all thought the article rubbish.

There's plenty of other evidence. I just posted that link b/c it was very recent. There is much evidence that kids who are allowed to drink at home drink more outside the home as well. I don't feel like googling it right now. I have posted on this in the past; you could do a search but I'd say good luck with that considering CD's search engine!

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by pman

this question highlights the absurdity of the legal situation. someone who is 18 isn't a minor but an adult, unless they want to buy alcohol. at least there's the pizza hut exception

Yep. Old enough to die for your country but still treated like a child by it. This nation's liquor laws are a disgrace. Want to show you're not a hypocrite? Then either lower the drinking age to 18 or raise the draft age to 21.

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by UKyank

On a flip side, having been a patron at many establishments in countries where the drinking age is under 21, I can appreciate the age limitation, not for any moral reasons, just that going to places here & seeing how some (not all) early 20s drinkers can be annoying as sh*t to everyone around them, it's ten fold worse with some 16-20 yr old inebriated people at the bar.

Funny, as feel the same way. I don't think there should be any drinking age, or maybe 16 or so, but that doesn't mean I want a bunch of punk teenagers near me either. People in their 20s and 30s can be bad enough( yes, I'm getting old).

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by Katiana

There's plenty of other evidence. I just posted that link b/c it was very recent. There is much evidence that kids who are allowed to drink at home drink more outside the home as well. I don't feel like googling it right now. I have posted on this in the past; you could do a search but I'd say good luck with that considering CD's search engine!

How many places have you actually visited? I can tell you, I've spent a lot of time in Europe and in China, and I don't see anywhere near the problems I've seen here. Only place that might be close is Italy, where they definitely have a party type culture. China on the other hand has very little restriction on drinking, yet I never saw any teens or even adults over indulging, despite alcohol being sold at every corner market. Culture has a lot to do with behavior. If the drinking age is lowered here there will be some craziness for a while, but it will level out quickly. Look at Canada. Same basic culture, but the drinking age is 18 or 19 in most Providences. So far society hasn't collapsed. Then again, they were never so stupid as to amend their constitution to ban alcohol all together.

[Katarina Witt]

^^Well, you did it! I made a pledge to myself I was just going to read and not respond b/c I have so much to do, but I can't resist this one. I'll even google some stuff for you.

Alcohol in teens in Europe

BBC NEWS | UK | Attitudes to alcohol in Europe

With Drinking, Parent Rules Do Affect Teens' Choices : NPR
To underscore these findings, a recent survey of 15- and 16-year-olds throughout Europe finds that the majority of European countries have a higher rate of teen drunkenness than in this country.

[ex-burgher]

The first article you link to refutes what you maintain:

"Alcohol statistics in Europe say that teens coming from homes that had no alcohol and were not taught how to drink responsibly had more issues with alcohol. Also, 33% of the teens who said that they bought their own alcohol, were six times more likely to drink in a public space, 3 times more likely to drink frequently and twice as likely to overindulge on alcohol. The behavior in these teens was less risky if parents allowed them to drink in the home."

Also I would say that England and Ireland also has a heavy drinking culture for teens and adults alike. Culture is the most important factor.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by Velvet Jones

Yep. Old enough to die for your country but still treated like a child by it. This nation's liquor laws are a disgrace. Want to show you're not a hypocrite? Then either lower the drinking age to 18 or raise the draft age to 21.

I tried to raise your rep for this comment but it wouldn't let me so

[Katarina Witt]

It also says this:

Also, contrary to some beliefs, the stricter control of consumption of alcohol in teens in America has not translated into a "forbidden fruit" type mentality where American teens drink more and experience more problems than other countries that have a weaker control on alcohol sales and consumption.