Why Pittsburgh's schools aren't that bad... (Penn: buy, good schools, income)

[entropyconcentrated]

Originally Posted by eschaton

But it doesn't "solve" the issue, any more than the Pittsburgh magnets do. It allows a talented few, regardless of family background, a place to shine.

I am not trying to solve the issue (imbalance in education achievement for any student subgroup).

Involved parents (those that know what to push AND how to push) +
Resources (facilities, extracurriculars, motivated & well trained faculty) =
success for all the kids.



I am simply trying to negate the premise that poor kids cannot excel, or that minority kids cannot excel, or any other subgroup cannot excel.

Other cities have exemplars of schools where all subgroups do well.

Pittsburgh seems to equate minority with poverty with low academic performance, as though this is the norm across the country. It simply is not.

[ex-burgher]

Originally Posted by entropyconcentrated

OK. I just did a high level search for info on Charlotte schools. Looking at all of the top performing public schools, I do not see how this conclusion was reached. The standardized tests scores, AP exam rates, etc. are similarly high for majority and minority students.

In the top two high schools the small number of black students do approach white students but these are wealthy areas. (often the student's parents are Haitian or African) The real problem is the 90%+ minority schools. They did however win the Broad Prize for urban education. PPS could probably learn something.
http://www.broadeducation.org/asset/...%20release.pdf

At my daughter's very diverse school, the passing rate on End of Course tests is 93%W, 82%H, 78%AA. (Best HS is nearly 100 for whites)

[entropyconcentrated]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

In the top two high schools the small number of black students do approach white students but these are wealthy areas. (often the student's parents are Haitian or African) The real problem is the 90%+ minority schools. They did however win the Broad Prize for urban education. PPS could probably learn something.
http://www.broadeducation.org/asset/...%20release.pdf

At my daughter's very diverse school, the passing rate on End of Course tests is 93%W, 82%H, 78%AA. (Best HS is nearly 100 for whites)

The 90% minority schools? Maybe I am looking at the wrong schools or something. Or maybe this notion is a stronghold of thought.

The schools I see are not simply a small number of black students that live in wealthy areas. For example one is over 80% minority serving with over 40% economically disadvantaged. This same school has nearly an entire population peforming above 90th percentile.

What do I hear? Pittsburgh line of thinking about inherent limitations based on race. High achieving minority students viewed skeptically or with caveats.

This is the sad part. So I wonder: is it just random people I meet online and on the ground? or does the faculty and administration also view things this way.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by entropyconcentrated

Pittsburgh seems to equate minority with poverty with low academic performance, as though this is the norm across the country. It simply is not.

You might not want to generalize about the city based only on what you read here. Jeremy Resnick, CEO of Propel Schools, Pgh's charter "district" (it has more students than a number of public districts here) might well give your view a run for its money.

[ex-burgher]

Originally Posted by entropyconcentrated

The 90% minority schools? Maybe I am looking at the wrong schools or something. Or maybe this notion is a stronghold of thought.

The schools I see are not simply a small number of black students that live in wealthy areas. For example one is over 80% minority serving with over 40% economically disadvantaged. This same school has nearly an entire population peforming above 90th percentile.

What do I hear? Pittsburgh line of thinking about inherent limitations based on race. High achieving minority students viewed skeptically or with caveats.

This is the sad part. So I wonder: is it just random people I meet online and on the ground? or does the faculty and administration also view things this way.

I have no idea where you are getting that minorities are performing in the 90th percentile. I don't believe that school exists. Reports state what percent pass the very easy (too easy) state tests. It's possible that those numbers seem high. I get stats from NC School report cards, or from CMS school progress reports:
School Progress Reports

District Search Results Page

[entropyconcentrated]

Originally Posted by squarian

You might not want to generalize about the city based only on what you read here. Jeremy Resnick, CEO of Propel Schools, Pgh's charter "district" (it has more students than a number of public districts here) might well give your view a run for its money.

I apologize. You are absolutely correct. I have been a bit careless in my language and generalizations.

I have ascribed to much authority to random people and comments on the web. My husband also thinks I am getting caried away.

[entropyconcentrated]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

I have no idea where you are getting that minorities are performing in the 90th percentile. I don't believe that school exists. Reports state what percent pass the very easy (too easy) state tests. It's possible that those numbers seem high. I get stats from NC School report cards, or from CMS school progress reports:
School Progress Reports

District Search Results Page

greatschools.org
http://www.greatschools.org/north-ca...Middle-School/

you win ex-burger

i am moving on.

good luck OP.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by entropyconcentrated

I am simply trying to negate the premise that poor kids cannot excel, or that minority kids cannot excel, or any other subgroup cannot excel.

Even blatant racists like Charles Murray of The Bell Curve fame don't claim that every black child is less intelligent than every white child - they claim the average IQ is about 15% lower, which means that only around 20% of black students have the same performance as a 50th percentile white student.

Thus, schools like this - which take the talented 10% (or whatever you call it) out of the bad schools don't really prove anything to those sort of people. Fortunately, there's data from other countries to show their conclusions are spurious.

[ex-burgher]

Sorry entropy - was not trying to "win" - anyway just wanted to say that the school you identified is one of the best magnet schools in the system. I am also in favor of magnets.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Alright:

Thanks for taking the time to find that information and post it. It seems like Britain still has an "achievement gap".

Originally Posted by squarian

Well, alright, I see what you're saying - from the point of view of boosting cities and Pgh in particular, the more publicly-funded alternatives there are, magnet or charter, the better - and I agree, the more those alternatives are touted and advertised, the better for the cities.

I have studied school issues for over 20 years now with the League of Women Voters. I have to say at this juncture that I am speaking for myself here. I am not in favor of charter or magnet schools except for the fact that they keep the kids in the public schools, and the parents are often highly motivated to work from within the school system. I think more effort should be made to improve all the schools. It has long been said that the wealthy have school choice. They can afford private school, or they can afford to live in areas where the public schools are high caliber. An acquaintance of mine pointed out that the wealthy often seem to get their kids into these "lottery" schools, as well.