another cyclist hit and run (Pittsburgh: day care, camps, safety)

[groar]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

I find it very telling that so many in this thread are quick to assume that in every instance of a cyclist being hit the motorist was intending harm. That's a very dark view of the world to have when you believe that so many around you are capable of killing you without a moment's thought.

i have very rarely seen people accusing motorists of intending harm to cyclists, except in some cases where they clearly did (the motorist chasing down and stabbing colin albright, the motorist who intentionally swerved at a cyclist from a stop, according to multiple witnesses, a few months ago). edited to add: ok, the latter is what this thread was originally about: again, this was a pretty clearcut case where several people saw what happened and there is not really any other explanation for what the motorist did. i'd also say there's no other explanation for the time someone followed a friend of mine into the bike lane, screaming and swearing and blaring his horn (oh and my friend is NOT captainpittsburgh! totally different incident). this stuff happens. it's called road rage and it's a documented phenomenon.

what i do see more often, though, is people accusing motorists of being careless and/or reckless. it actually hasn't happened in the discussion of this most recent incident (the conversation seems to have been dominated by tclifton's "cyclists should be banned from the streets" schtick so far), but i'll do it - this woman turned left into the child when he and his family were riding with the right of way. of course it was not intentional but it was very careless of her. at least she stuck around like a decent human being, unlike a lot of other people who hit cyclists and pedestrians.

[groar]

also i wonder if they ever caught the driver from the original incident. i never saw a follow-up to this story.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by greg42

They don't belong on the sidewalk, that's for sure. I almost had a head on with one the other day coming around a corner.

I agree that bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk, but it is indeed legal in Pennsylvania for bikes to be ridden on a sidewalk except within commercial districts.

I was impressed with the bicycle infrastructure in parts of urban Europe where vehicular road lanes are flanked by specifically delineated bicycle and pedestrian lanes, sometimes being physically separated from each other. I appreciate the wide lanes being accorded to bicyclists in Pittsburgh on some streets, but I wish it could be expanded well beyond that. A more robust non-road-based mass transit system would certainly help with that.

I remember hearing in Copenhagen a few years back that there was a growing concern over careless bicyclists hitting and injuring pedestrians. Change that to cars hitting bicyclists and I guess you can say that Pittsburgh is now just like Copenhagen.

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by jay5835

We pedestrians, i.e., those of us who belong on the sidewalk, don't want the cyclists.

They wait until you can touch them with your tongue to let you know they're there by whispering "passing" or "on your right" in your ear, and all that does is make you jump out of your skin. And then they get all huffy when I tell them where they belong. I live on a main enough drag that cyclists want to ride on the sidewalk and I have gotten thisclose twice to bikers coming up behind me while I was waiting for the bus. Keep them in the road where they belong.

You think that's bad, try pushing a stroller with your kid in it when one "buzzes" you.

I get what you're saying, but some kind of comprehensive compromise is in order to minimize the risk for everyone. Hypothetically if the cyclists had specific arteries that they could utilize for higher speed travel (ie in the street with barriers protecting them) it would minimize the instances where they would need to be on the sidewalks to destination specific areas. As with vehicles utilizing a highway, cyclists could practice a higher rate of travel on the determined bike route, and then observe a slower rate on sidewalks as they get closer to their destination. In those instances where they were forced onto the sidewalk perhaps speed limits would be called for. The notion of an officer clocking a cyclist with a radar gun seems silly, but something along the lines of observing wreckless behavior on the part of the rider that could danger pedestrians may be more realistic a way of enforcing it.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

The culture is not going to change until someone beats this city over the head with the idea that they should be careful of bicyclists on the road. Bicycling on the road in this city just came out of nowhere in the past 5 years and it was immediate culture shock for both motorists and pedestrians. You can't expect a smooth transition from bike-free roadways to roadways being filled with them in such a short period of time.

What I'm trying to say is the city should work to educate the (stupid) masses. Do an ad campaign during Steeler games. Run stories about it during the evening news. Put up billboards. Until then jagoffs are going to have huge animosity towards bicyclists because they don't know any better.

Also, bicyclists don't get a free pass either. Follow the god damn rules of the road too.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

You're right, it would likely require changing the particular streets designated as cyclist streets into strictly one way traffic. I don't think residents would care for it (change in general is frowned upon), but to provide cyclists a safe space to commute it would be necessary. I'm certainly not an urban planner, but having specific bike friendly streets like this strategically placed around the city while forcing cyclists onto the sidewalks on all other main roads (like East Carson, Penn, Liberty, etct) seems like a reasonable compromise.

Woah, woah woah.

I was okay with your idea initially, but I presumed you were talking about putting those bike lanes on major streets like Penn, Liberty, Butler, East Carson, etc. After all, they are usually the most dangerous streets.

Ghettoizing bikes onto side roads won't work for a number of reasons.

1. It's literally impossible to commute on a bike without going on the main roads to some degree. I don't see how you could bike through the Strip District, for example, without going on a main commercial street (particularly if you include Smallman in the definition). Or in Lawrenceville you cannot cross from Upper Lawrenceville into Central Lawrenceville without going on Butler Street.
2. Setting up bike lanes on side streets means residential streets. Which means you'd be eliminating streetside parking directly in front of their houses. People would be ripping pissed about that.
3. It's illegal in PA, as others have noted, to bike on the sidewalk through a commercial district. So without a change in state law, this could not be done.

Originally Posted by jay5835

They wait until you can touch them with your tongue to let you know they're there by whispering "passing" or "on your right" in your ear, and all that does is make you jump out of your skin. And then they get all huffy when I tell them where they belong. I live on a main enough drag that cyclists want to ride on the sidewalk and I have gotten thisclose twice to bikers coming up behind me while I was waiting for the bus. Keep them in the road where they belong.

The only time I ride on the sidewalks rather than the streets is crossing bridges. I do have to admit I've gotten peeved when I've said "on your left" and people don't react, but then again, pedestrians aren't used to having someone pass them.

In general, I've gotten really conscious of road safety as a biker now, because 90% of the time I ride, my daughter is with me in her bike seat. I try and avoid using roads as much as feasible and stay on trails, but outside of the North Side trail, there's no complete one we can do a regular commute on. I do notice drivers are notably more conscientious when I have my daughter with me compared to when I do not however.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

The culture is not going to change until someone beats this city over the head with the idea that they should be careful of bicyclists on the road. Bicycling on the road in this city just came out of nowhere in the past 5 years and it was immediate culture shock for both motorists and pedestrians. You can't expect a smooth transition from bike-free roadways to roadways being filled with them in such a short period of time.

What I'm trying to say is the city should work to educate the (stupid) masses. Do an ad campaign during Steeler games. Run stories about it during the evening news. Put up billboards. Until then jagoffs are going to have huge animosity towards bicyclists because they don't know any better.

Also, bicyclists don't get a free pass either. Follow the god damn rules of the road too.

I'm glad to see that you're a fine, non-condescending example of the bike community. Believe it or not, sometimes people on bikes can come across as entitled elitist douchebags, which might add to the animosity, but thankfully you're representing that community as a very level headed person. Kudos to you for that!

[groar]

as if ANYONE on here has ever said that cyclists don't need to follow the rules of the road.

edit: oh wait, maybe tclifton is being sarcastical! cute.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do have to admit I've gotten peeved when I've said "on your left" and people don't react, but then again, pedestrians aren't used to having someone pass them.

As a frequent runner on city sidewalks I want to thank you very much for warning people as you pass them. I can't tell you how many times I've almost jumped out of my skin (just like jay5835) when I'm running down a sidewalk and suddenly have a cyclist whizzing by me at 15 miles per hour within inches of my body without being forewarned.

I also just wanted to point out that this discussion proves that the city is getting healthier. The fact that we're having so much congestion on sidewalks and so much animosity now between motorists and cyclists proves to me that more people are trying to drive less. Less cars on the road will certainly help to improve our air quality in the coming years, reduce our nation's dependency upon fossil fuels, improve the health of our citizens, and will create the DEMAND for better biking infrastructure. It will also provide a small uptick in the local economy---more people biking means less money spent on gas that can instead be spent at restaurants, retailers, etc. I think the next mayor will not be able to avoid addressing improving cycling infrastructure during his first term in office.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by tclifton

I'm glad to see that you're a fine, non-condescending example of the bike community. Believe it or not, sometimes people on bikes can come across as entitled elitist douchebags, which might add to the animosity, but thankfully you're representing that community as a very level headed person. Kudos to you for that!

I get it. Tony Clifton. Doh ho ho.