Tom Murphy opposes Buncher project (Pittsburgh, Taylor: sales, bankruptcy, gated)

[MathmanMathman]

I didn't often agree with Tom Murphy as mayor but I agree with him on the Buncher project.

Former Pittsburgh mayor wants Strip District redevelopment to provide more public access to riverbank | TribLIVE

Putting housing and office space along that stretch of river will make it sterile as a public space. It won't attract people to the river. I'd prefer it be lined with retail and restaurants. Give more options to hang out beside the river.

I don't know how the City Council feels about it but the mayor supports Buncher.

[gg]

Murphy was 1000's time better than the buffoon we have in there now. Murphy was smart and believe me, knew what he was doing. It amazes me how anyone could dislike him if you are for the city. He was spot on 99% of the time. He brought business in and knew how to sell our city. Strange how anyone could dislike that guy. I dealt with him on some deals indirectly. Believe me, boy mayor has no idea what to do. Murphy certainly did.

[SammyKhalifa]

I have no real opinion of him as mayor (I wasn't even here at the time), and he seems nice enough as an ex-mayor. And I'm certainly no fan of the current one.

But as far as urban development goes, isn't this the same Tom Murphy that wanted to wreck down half of downtown and put in a department store?

[MathmanMathman]

One project that Murphy backed that I didn't like was Fifth and Forbes. It would have razed blocks of downtown for an urban mall like thing. I didn't think it was sustainable as the problem with Pittsburgh was not a lack of downtown retail. It would have failed just as other downtown retail project ideas from the Murphy era failed. Pittsburgh and the region was in the economic doldrums and bringing in retail wan't the answer.

As far as I know, Pittsburgh does lack a strip of riverside restaurants/cafes. The Buncher project could do this. Considering it's Strip District, this can work.

[pman]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

One project that Murphy backed that I didn't like was Fifth and Forbes. It would have razed blocks of downtown for an urban mall like thing. I didn't think it was sustainable as the problem with Pittsburgh was not a lack of downtown retail. It would have failed just as other downtown retail project ideas from the Murphy era failed. Pittsburgh and the region was in the economic doldrums and bringing in retail wan't the answer.

As far as I know, Pittsburgh does lack a strip of riverside restaurants/cafes. The Buncher project could do this. Considering it's Strip District, this can work.

it was a mind boggling stupid and archaic idea. whatever one thinks about ravenstahl, he isn't pushing anything as ill conceived as that. that said, the sheer number of groups opposed to the buncher project should give you pause. muprhy, AVRR, PennFuture..I feel like I must be missing one. it's not a particularly well designed project, murphy is right to question the gated streets. it's an important area to get right. one might even think that the whole approach of having one developer handle it is flawed. it's an approach being used on the north shore, arena site, and the strip and nowhere is it providing dividends the way that greek guy developed harbor east in baltimore. provide a plan, lay out the streets, sell off the land. who knows, maybe buncher will make a deal with one or more of the groups and come out with a better project.

[gg]

Murphy dealt with a much more difficult time in Pittsburgh than Ravenstahl who really does nothing. He is a figurehead and nothing more. Murphy brought business in. I witnessed it first hand and the big money people I talked to from Philly told me, "That Murphy is one heck of a sales person". Murphy worked hard to get the Northside going and he actually worked hard period. His heart was in the right place and he had the tools to sell Pittsburgh to investors. Ravenstahl doesn't have those tools.

Anyway, mistakes are always made. Hindsight is much easier than live events.

[Tinare]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

One project that Murphy backed that I didn't like was Fifth and Forbes. It would have razed blocks of downtown for an urban mall like thing. I didn't think it was sustainable as the problem with Pittsburgh was not a lack of downtown retail. It would have failed just as other downtown retail project ideas from the Murphy era failed. Pittsburgh and the region was in the economic doldrums and bringing in retail wan't the answer.

As far as I know, Pittsburgh does lack a strip of riverside restaurants/cafes. The Buncher project could do this. Considering it's Strip District, this can work.

This and the Lazarus deal and the ruining of the old Mellon Bank for Lord & Taylor. So, yeah, it scares me to actually agree with Murphy. But maybe he learned something from all of his mistakes.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Tinare

So, yeah, it scares me to actually agree with Murphy. But maybe he learned something from all of his mistakes.

Or maybe recent events have caused everybody to lower their standards for mayoring. Anyway, count me in the "scared to agree with Murphy" group.

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Murphy dealt with a much more difficult time in Pittsburgh than Ravenstahl who really does nothing. He is a figurehead and nothing more. Murphy brought business in. I witnessed it first hand and the big money people I talked to from Philly told me, "That Murphy is one heck of a sales person". Murphy worked hard to get the Northside going and he actually worked hard period. His heart was in the right place and he had the tools to sell Pittsburgh to investors. Ravenstahl doesn't have those tools.

Anyway, mistakes are always made. Hindsight is much easier than live events.

This smacks of hypocrisy, excusing your guy for his shortcomings and chiding the guy you dont like for his. The reality is murphy was good at some things and not for others. the reality is those ideas were terrible and archaic then as now even if youre not willing to admit it. In reality not doing much is a good thing...had former mayors done less the city wouldnt have been in bankruptcy. Rendell is a lot like murphy and his salemanship was to be commended but he to had a penchant for big publicly fundrd projects regardless of return and you can only afford so many of them with many not working out. This approach to redevelopment had been failing for decades. sometimes doing something is worse than doing nothing. the key is to when to do something, when to do nothing....and then to sell what you did or didn't do.

[gg]

Okay, so most seem to agree with Ravenstahl. Fine, but I feel Murphy is more qualified in this area. He started all this riverfront developments with Friends of the Riverfront and all the bicycle trail connections. Ravenstahl just saw Murphy's plan through.