Report: Downtown Pittsburgh Class A office market tightest in the U.S. (Irwin: houses, area)

[Burghgirl17]

Originally Posted by pman

it must bug the heck out of you that PPG is a defining building in the skyline while gateway is an also ran. PPG's mani problem seems to be one of leasing, the tenant mix is poor and doesn't take advantage of the "square." As for gateway, aside from the hideous wyndham building the architecture is somewhat pleasant even if the "park in the city" falls flat. one would assume that gateway is also the reason for the bizarre street plan with penn ave there. dumb. not that I think it's worth knocking down for that reason.what did the grid look like before? no doubt it was "modernized" to improve flow for people who lived elsewhere.

This seems to be changing. The PNC branch is moving elsewhere in the building, leaving available the spot on the square for a more fitting tenant.

[eschaton]

The two different grids downtown which intersect at Penn date to the city's founding. The section to the south of Penn Avenue was supposed to be the grid across all of downtown, but by the time they established that, people had independently set up a second grid pattern along the Allegheny. Hence they decided to stick with it.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by pman

it must bug the heck out of you that PPG is a defining building in the skyline while gateway is an also ran.

I try not to get upset over things I can't change.

When I was younger, I used to go down to Point Park a lot, and from there I -- often we -- would see Gateway Center from the ground as we walked through it. It was a fun walk. Horne's was still in existence, which must have ameliorated the bizareness of Penn Avenue, since I don't have a memory of Penn Avenue being unusual in any way. Then we could walk to Jenkins Arcade, and if we still hadn't had enough, we could go to Kaufmann's or Gimbel's.

It was a much more enjoyable downtown in the '70s.

[Evergrey]

There is always a contrarian.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The two different grids downtown which intersect at Penn date to the city's founding. The section to the south of Penn Avenue was supposed to be the grid across all of downtown, but by the time they established that, people had independently set up a second grid pattern along the Allegheny. Hence they decided to stick with it.

if you look at the maps I posted, the grids used to extend to the point. penn ave and liberty didn't converge, they went straight to the river. likewise, the avenues continued until they terminated at liberty rather than stanwix.

jay-I was only kidding. like it or not, PPG is distinct.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

There is always a contrarian.

I agree

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pman

if you look at the maps I posted, the grids used to extend to the point. penn ave and liberty didn't converge, they went straight to the river. likewise, the avenues continued until they terminated at liberty rather than stanwix.

jay-I was only kidding. like it or not, PPG is distinct.

I had a brain fart. I meant Liberty was always the dividing line between the two grids - the planned grid, and the unplanned one in what became the cultural district. The Penn/Liberty Corridor was essentially an unplanned shantytown which formed in the shadow of Fort Pitt.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I had a brain fart. I meant Liberty was always the dividing line between the two grids - the planned grid, and the unplanned one in what became the cultural district. The Penn/Liberty Corridor was essentially an unplanned shantytown which formed in the shadow of Fort Pitt.

as I understand it, nobody held legal title to their land until the penn's bought the territory and employed T. Francis to sell off the parcels. here's the original adopted plan 1784

Pittsburgh 250

it's my understanding that penn ave is the oldest road leading to what was then pittsburgh so it seems likely that people settled along it right from the start. I think it would have been preferrable if the urban renewal had kept penn and liberty intact as far as the newly created park. as a side note, I find it interesting that first was called front st. back to the original topic, I'd like to see the burns scalo building built on water st ; )

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I wish they had built bigger just for aesthetics to better fill a "gap" in the skyline.

With that being said we need to carefully balance rising high-class office demand in our urban core with historic preservation. One thing many visitors note about Pittsburgh's Downtown is its wonderful contrast between modern towers and restored late-1800s to early-1900s architecture. I don't want to see our history destroyed just to make us Downtown Houston---a small sea of super-tall glass towers ringed by a freeway and parking lots.

For this reason I want to see Oxford RESTORE rather than DEMOLISH the Frank & Seder Building for a skyscraper. The Saks Building is hideous, and I'm glad THAT will soon be redeveloped. I hate to say it, as I believe a few forumers (greg42? WhoIsStanwix?) say they work there, but from my personal aesthetic stadpoint the ugliest area of Downtown architecture is Gateway Center. I'd love to see one of those 1960s-era Soviet-esque structures replaced by a taller modern skyscraper.

Nah I work in the equally ugly Westinghouse building (currently wearing a First Niagra badge).

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

as I understand it, nobody held legal title to their land until the penn's bought the territory and employed T. Francis to sell off the parcels. here's the original adopted plan 1784

Pittsburgh 250

it's my understanding that penn ave is the oldest road leading to what was then pittsburgh so it seems likely that people settled along it right from the start. I think it would have been preferrable if the urban renewal had kept penn and liberty intact as far as the newly created park. as a side note, I find it interesting that first was called front st. back to the original topic, I'd like to see the burns scalo building built on water st ; )

Awesome map, & they should revert back to the names for the streets going towards the Allegheny on it as it is confusing to visitors that there is a 7th avenue and a 7th Street within a few blocks of each other & that run in nearly the same direction; reverting back to Irwin St would solve this