What are Pittsburgh's peer cities? (Indiana, Dallas: to live in, stats, manufacturing)

[james777]

Originally Posted by gladhands

He's obviously joking. See Mayberry.

having moved here from Boston, I have to say that Pittsburgh clearly occupies a lower tier than Pittsburgh. That said, I MUCH prefer Pittsburgh. Boston's big problem is that it's priced higher than the actual tier it occupies.

What I'm gathering from this thread, is that Pittsburgh is probably the class of its tier. Baltimore is the only one of Pittsburgh's peer cities that offers more in terms of amenities, but it's significantly more expensive and has much higher crime.

No, I am not joking; I am dead serious. I threw Mayberry and Hooterville in there to show how crazy it would be that anyone would put Pittsburgh on the same level as Raleigh or Norfolk or Arlington, Texas or Virginia Beach or any or the other tenth tier cities that people have suggested on this forum.

This is how American cities have been categorized for decades. If there was a change last week I haven't heard.

Why, in your view, is Pittsburgh much lower than Boston?

[eschaton]

Boston is definitely a higher tier than Pittsburgh, but not on the same tier as Chicago or Philly. It's in the same tier as DC - a solidly urban city which really doesn't have much bang for the buck these days, although the older urban nodes outside of Boston's city limits mean the region as a whole outshines the DMV area.

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by james777

No, I am not joking; I am dead serious. I threw Mayberry and Hooterville in there to show how crazy it would be that anyone would put Pittsburgh on the same level as Raleigh or Norfolk or Arlington, Texas or Virginia Beach or any or the other tenth tier cities that people have suggested on this forum.

This is how American cities have been categorized for decades. If there was a change last week I haven't heard.

Why, in your view, is Pittsburgh much lower than Boston?

Boston vs Pittsburgh is actually a pretty easy comparison to make because the two cities are actually more similar than most people think. Both are dense, older, geographically small cities with small city populations, with respect to their metro. Both have Eds/Meds/Finance/Tech economies, but Boston has more prominent institutions in all of the above fields and is more important to the nation, as a whole. Boston has much better transit and more cultural/entertainment offerings. It's also more globally connected.

I think NY, LA and Chicago each occupy their own tier, and there's a tier below them with SF, Boston, DC, Philly and Seattle. After that, it gets a little trickier.

[MountainDewGuy]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Boston vs Pittsburgh is actually a pretty easy comparison to make because the two cities are actually more similar than most people think. Both are dense, older, geographically small cities with small city populations, with respect to their metro. Both have Eds/Meds/Finance/Tech economies, but Boston has more prominent institutions in all of the above fields and is more important to the nation, as a whole. Boston has much better transit and more cultural/entertainment offerings. It's also more globally connected.

I think NY, LA and Chicago each occupy their own tier, and there's a tier below them with SF, Boston, DC, Philly and Seattle. After that, it gets a little trickier.

Exactly. Boston is similar in that Pittsburgh is also older and the street design reflects the age. But it's the scale of those institutions and entities you mention that separate the two. Looking at colleges alone, Boston probably has 10x more than Pittsburgh, and I think we have a good share.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by MountainDewGuy

Exactly. Boston is similar in that Pittsburgh is also older and the street design reflects the age. But it's the scale of those institutions and entities you mention that separate the two. Looking at colleges alone, Boston probably has 10x more than Pittsburgh, and I think we have a good share.

Agree 100%. In many ways, Pittsburgh is "Boston-Lite".
It's tough to really group cities, as they may be similar in some ways, but differ in others. Using strictly population, Philly and Houston would be peers, but how alike are they really? Cleveland and Detroit share many physical similarities, but even with it's decline, Detroit is much larger than Cleveland. Are they really peers?

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Delco21

Pittsburgh has tons of cheap houses in large swaths of the city. Cleveland is the same way. The reason these large swaths are cheap is desirability. Nobody wants to live there. All those hardcore city dwellers refuse to put money where their mouth is. Why not invest in a Sheridan, carrick or Marshall shade land if you are hardcore about living in the city? None of them will pony up the money to live in an affordable yet undesirable neighborhood.

Speak for yourself. I am restoring a house in Woods Run. I also know many twenty-somethings who are fixing up old houses in depressed parts of the city, or the depressed mill towns. It's not that unusual. Also, there are many "growing cities" with cheap housing. Do a realtor.com search of houses under $20,000 in Columbus!

[Delco21]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Speak for yourself. I am restoring a house in Woods Run. I also know many twenty-somethings who are fixing up old houses in depressed parts of the city, or the depressed mill towns. It's not that unusual. Also, there are many "growing cities" with cheap housing. Do a realtor.com search of houses under $20,000 in Columbus!

You are right there are some neighborhoods in Columbus with cheap housing they are blighted areas, just not as widespread as other cities. If it wasn't for Columbus the state of Ohio would be in pretty bad shape budget wise and economically on par or worse than PA.

Luckily this is a city where people want to live and businesses wants to be. It's amazing when the central city and its suburbs have money. School districts thrive, young people buy houses and have kids. You don't need to rely on non profits donating to make ends meet. You don't have to wait a lifetime for development to occur. It just happens.

Columbus is probably the most pregnant city right now as it seems every woman is pregnant or trying to have a child. LOL. Our school district alone had 200 more children enrolled this year than expected. Our district has spent 50 million in renovating and adding onto its schools. Yet we average 8,000 spent per pupil. One of the best run districts in the state. You can still have low taxes if people don't squander the tax money.

My company has an office in Birmingham, Alabama. I will tell you nobody mentioned Birmingham as a peer city to Pittsburgh. My first time ever visiting there was last year. Birmingham is very much like Pittsburgh in feel, demographic topography and being an old steel mill town. When I came home I researched Birmingham and it actually referred to as "Pittsburgh South". I am telling you it is eerie how similar it is to Pittsburgh. They have a "homewood" neighborhood in the city but it is completely the opposite of Pittsburgh's homewood.

For me Birmingham, Alabama is most like Pittsburgh as it is also in the Appalachia and has the same history of the burgh. I would put Cleveland as a close second. However Cleveland is way more liberal than Pittsburgh.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by james777

No, I am not joking; I am dead serious. I threw Mayberry and Hooterville in there to show how crazy it would be that anyone would put Pittsburgh on the same level as Raleigh or Norfolk or Arlington, Texas or Virginia Beach or any or the other tenth tier cities that people have suggested on this forum.

This is how American cities have been categorized for decades. If there was a change last week I haven't heard.

Why, in your view, is Pittsburgh much lower than Boston?

Arlington, Texas is 383,000 and a suburb in a 7 million metro. Pittsburgh is a core city just barely over 300,000 in a 2 million metro. You can't really compare any suburb with the core city of another metro. DFW is 2 or 3 times larger than Pittsburgh metro, so DFW IS a couple levels above Pittsburgh. Arlington goes with DFW, so Arlington is a couple of levels above Pittsburgh. It would be much more reasonable and fair to compare Pittsburgh to Ft Wayne, Indiana or Lexington, Kentucky than to Arlington, Texas.

By the way, Arlington is no slouch as a suburb either. It's the home of the Dallas Cowboys, The Texas Rangers and 6 Flags Over Texas. Can any Pittsburgh suburbs compete with those kind of stats? No, I didn't think so.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

By the way, Arlington is no slouch as a suburb either. It's the home of the Dallas Cowboys, The Texas Rangers and 6 Flags Over Texas. Can any Pittsburgh suburbs compete with those kind of stats? No, I didn't think so.

Aside from having stadiums and a theme park, Arlington is just plain old suburbia though. It's not even a suburb like Mesa, Arizona which at least is developing an urban center. The only difference is since it's in a sun belt area, where land starts out unincorporated, one suburb managed to capture a wide swathe of land, where up here it would be split between dozens of townships and boroughs.

[MountainDewGuy]

Originally Posted by james777

Quote:
Originally Posted by james777 View Post


Yes, I have not only been there, but I know it pretty well. Why is it not a peer city of Pittsburgh, in your view?

Boston is on a different level in just about every category. Note, that doesn't mean that either city is 'better' than the other, in the same way that NYC isn't 'better' than some small town in Wisconsin. If you want to trump out the tired points that Pittsburgh is 'within 90 minutes of nature related actives' or that Pittsburgh offers 'lots of upward mobility' or that the 'food scene is quickly catching up' or whatever else people believe, then fine, but Boston is at a different level in 90% of the categories that are measurable.

I see Boston as an 'aspiration' city of Pittsburgh, not a peer city. That's why Pittsburgh hired someone from Boston to improve our waterfront lifestyle access. We aspire to be more like them.