Neighborhood of the week: Elliott (Pittsburgh, Allentown: low income, top neighborhoods, for sale)

[eschaton]

Elliott is a neighborhood in the West End, on the hill immediately above West End Village. Although one of the larger West End neighborhoods, it is relatively unknown. Besides driving through the neighborhood on Steuben or Chartiers streets, the average Pittsburgher's only experience with the neighborhood may be the famous view of the city at the West End Overlook.

Elliiott was originally part of the now defunct Chartiers Township in the 19th century. Some sections of the neighborhood are quite old - Wallbridge Street and the surrounding area in particular were really part of the old West End Village/Temperanceville and built out decades prior to the remainder of Elliott. The bulk of the neighborhood was slowly built out between 1880 and 1930 for people of relatively modest means. As is typical for hilltop neighborhoods of that vintage, the earlier housing stock is heavily frame, while the later housing stock is more mixed (reflecting how brick changed from a structural material to something which was basically pasted onto a frame house around World War 1).

Elliott technically has a business district along portions of Lorenz Avenue and Chartiers Avenue. However, due to a combination of properties lost to blight, abandoned storefronts, and houses mixed in the business district, it doesn't have a cohesive feel. Looking at older maps while it was more expansive in the past it was never a full business district and always scattered storefronts mixed in with houses. Probably back in the day it was just as easy to take the short streetcar ride down to West End Village to do your major shopping. Regardless, there are some low-income neighborhood basics like a bar, convenience store, laundromat, sandwich shop, and Boost Mobile location, so there is a modicum of walkability.

Elliott was always a poor neighborhood, but has generally been considered to have worsened significantly since the closure of Broadhead Manor in the period between 1996 and 2004. However, it was impacted significantly less than adjacent Sheraden, with relatively low levels of white flight. Property values remain among the lowest in the city, with many homes under $50,000, but this is as much a result of the poor condition of the housing stock as it is the lack of desirability of the neighborhood. As long as the West End as a whole remains unfashionable, the hope for Elliott in particular to arrest its decline is slim.

[PreservationPioneer]

I have never understood the decline of neighborhoods like Elliott. They aren't considered dangerous, they haven't been severely impacted by white flight or abandonment, they have affordable and historic housing (often in fair condition), and the neighborhood is close to downtown. So what's the problem? You know, Pittsburgh will never reach its potential until these fairly intact, safe, but neglected neighborhoods start to re-populate. Everyone is crowding into the East End, and meanwhile you can buy a house in Elliott for nothing.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I have never understood the decline of neighborhoods like Elliott. They aren't considered dangerous, they haven't been severely impacted by white flight or abandonment, they have affordable and historic housing (often in fair condition), and the neighborhood is close to downtown. So what's the problem? You know, Pittsburgh will never reach its potential until these fairly intact, safe, but neglected neighborhoods start to re-populate. Everyone is crowding into the East End, and meanwhile you can buy a house in Elliott for nothing.

Elliott may cost "nothing", but there are a ton of preferable areas (subjective, I know) that cost "nothing plus two bucks", so to speak. Most people priced out of buying in the East End have a lot of backup options on their list, including renting in the East End, before they would consider buying in Elliott. If you find your $200K mortgage budget to be insufficient in the East End, you aren't likely to slash your budget to $50K and buy in Elliott.

Elliott, as a whole, won't benefit much from being so cheap until people are getting priced out of Beechview, Mt. Washington, Troy Hill, etc.

Of course, on an individual level, you are correct -- Elliott is one of those neighborhoods that is ripe for the picking for a bargain hunter.

[eschaton]

I've been curious about why this house is so cheap, even for Elliott. I mean, it's certainly grungy, but it doesn't look like a total gut job and appears to be structurally sound. Hell, it would be a great house for SCR.

Originally Posted by ferraris

Elliott, as a whole, won't benefit much from being so cheap until people are getting priced out of Beechview, Mt. Washington, Troy Hill, etc.

I agree. Hell, I expect at current rates we'll see Allentown and maybe even the southern hilltop as a whole "turn" before the West End sees significant appreciation. Then again, I do not have a crystal ball, and have been wrong about projections before.

[szug-bot]

There is a significant drug culture there. People know it. Word gets around.

There are a few beautiful streets there, like Crucible - a number of the homes on Crucible were funded by one family on that street, according to a friend who lives there. Those homes are probably bargains.

In a previous thread, someone did mention the couple of streets there with nice homes. I know I looked at one (as a prospective buyer) a couple years ago. The neighborhood, temptingly affordable, was just not as strategically located for my needs at that time.

I am not hopeless that Elliot can improve. But unlike other low income places, there doesn't seem to be that sense of community spirit and self-betterment you might find in other relatively poor places. And, one might argue that the City does not pay attention to betterment of that place (and all the Western neighborhoods, basically). They will throw money at the east side.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been curious about why this house is so cheap, even for Elliott. I mean, it's certainly grungy, but it doesn't look like a total gut job and appears to be structurally sound. Hell, it would be a great house for SCR.

That house is definitely a good candidate for someone like SCR, being only half a mile from the West End Village business district. It is a 2 bed, 1 bath, but that is still about $10-$15k cheaper than I'd expect. My guess is that there is some issue that the seller is aware of, and is discounting the price appropriately.

Incidentally, there's an interesting remodel right next door. I thought it may be new construction at first, but the county assessment page says it was built in 1900.

[prnlvsxy]

There's a pretty nice old Victorian for sale there now https://www.trulia.com/property/3242...burgh-PA-15220

Not sure what this means, but apparently "This property is eligible for Act 42 Tax Abatement Program and The Side Yard program"

EDIT
Apparently what this means is that you don't pay taxes for 3 years, and you're eligible to buy the neighboring lot very cheaply

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I have never understood the decline of neighborhoods like Elliott. They aren't considered dangerous, they haven't been severely impacted by white flight or abandonment, they have affordable and historic housing (often in fair condition), and the neighborhood is close to downtown. So what's the problem? You know, Pittsburgh will never reach its potential until these fairly intact, safe, but neglected neighborhoods start to re-populate. Everyone is crowding into the East End, and meanwhile you can buy a house in Elliott for nothing.

I would guess most of these home require considerable work and even though one may be able to afford the mortgage, they might not have the capital if issues come up. I understand that getting a refab loan is an option but they might not be willing to take the risk.

[sky329]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been curious about why this house is so cheap, even for Elliott. I mean, it's certainly grungy, but it doesn't look like a total gut job and appears to be structurally sound. Hell, it would be a great house for SCR.

that foundation looks super scary

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

There are a few beautiful streets there, like Crucible - a number of the homes on Crucible were funded by one family on that street, according to a friend who lives there. Those homes are probably bargains.

What part of Crucible are you talking about. I just took a Street View tour up and down the street, and this was pretty much the nicest house I saw - mainly because the original brackets and trim are still there.

Originally Posted by prnlvsxy

There's a pretty nice old Victorian for sale there now https://www.trulia.com/property/3242...burgh-PA-15220

It's quite nice indeed - on a brick street in the section of Elliott which was historically part of the West End.

The negative I see is that kind of house comes on the market pretty frequently in Pittsburgh - even in roughly the same price range. Just wait around and the something will pop up in Brighton Heights, Brookline - even Mount Washington. Those neighborhoods have more of a reputation for grand old houses, so the average buyer will be more likely to look in those locales rather than Elliott.

Originally Posted by sky329

that foundation looks super scary

I don't think that foundation is unusual for the age of the house. One of my wife's coworkers lives in the Mexican War Streets, and their house is supported by tree stumps which were rammed into the earth!