Amazon is looking for a second HQ. Why not, Pittsburgh? (Denver: education, health care)

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by lookingaround12345

This IMO is the only thing that makes Pittsburgh a contender to begin with. Aside from low housing and labor costs it seems other cities have Pittsburgh beat handily. Can the cheap cost of labor make up for all of the other shortcomings as the horrible roads? I am thinking that's the only real question for locating to Pittsburgh.

there are plenty of other reasons this area works very well. I just place it at the highest on the list because payroll savings are an instant day one advantage.

I highly doubt the "horrible roads" are even worth mentioning within a board room discussion of the pros and cons of each city. Can you honestly imagine that conversation among top level execs happening? " Well Jeff, by choosing Pittsburgh, we save an instant $1.2B year one on payroll expenses. However, even though there are multiple self driving car programs happening on their public roads, I just feel there were a lot of potholes and that just can't be overcome. I vote we go somewhere else."

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by jea6321

"What do we have to pay in salaries to compete with Google and Facebook and Apple?"

I still think this is one of the biggest factors they will be considering. Tax incentives are great for the company, but being able to pay their employees 30-80k( or more in some cases) less per person will amount to Billions in savings per year. There is no chance its not a huge consideration.

Seriously? The only thing that's cheaper in Pittsburgh than most of these other 19 cities is housing, and Pittsburgh is getting up there.

Here's a link with average software engineering salaries in some large cities:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-soft...-in-Seattle-WA
The highest are the SF Bay Area ($132K), followed by NY and Seattle at $125, LA at $122, and so forth. The only city paying under $100K is Atlanta ($96K). It's unlikely they could find any to work in Pittsburgh for less than that.

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Seriously? The only thing that's cheaper in Pittsburgh than most of these other 19 cities is housing, and Pittsburgh is getting up there.

Here's a link with average software engineering salaries in some large cities:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-soft...-in-Seattle-WA
The highest are the SF Bay Area ($132K), followed by NY and Seattle at $125, LA at $122, and so forth. The only city paying under $100K is Atlanta ($96K). It's unlikely they could find any to work in Pittsburgh for less than that.

most software engineers in the Bay Area as well as NY, Seattle and LA make way more than 132k. a lot in Pittsburgh make that much or more. Not sure where they are getting their numbers but they are either outdated by about 5 years or just wrong.

But not every job at amazon will be engineering anyways. Look at a COL calculator and see what the difference between DC, Boston, NY, and Pittsburgh are. Also look at average salaries across the board in these cities. 30-80k less per person is absolutely in line with the savings. Cost of living: How far will my salary go in another city? - CNNMoney

In DC, they would need to pay approx 55% more per employee. in NYC, nearly 140% more.

[Faer]

Originally Posted by jea6321

most software engineers in the Bay Area as well as NY, Seattle and LA make way more than 132k. a lot in Pittsburgh make that much or more. Not sure where they are getting their numbers but they are either outdated by about 5 years or just wrong.

But not every job at amazon will be engineering anyways. Look at a COL calculator and see what the difference between DC, Boston, NY, and Pittsburgh are. Also look at average salaries across the board in these cities. 30-80k less per person is absolutely in line with the savings. Cost of living: How far will my salary go in another city? - CNNMoney

In DC, they would need to pay approx 55% more per employee. in NYC, nearly 140% more.

This is my field, and I've worked in California. Seems pretty close to me. Yes, you can find some folks making considerably more, but for median pay, it does not seem too far off.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by jea6321

[b][color="DarkRed"]most software engineers in the Bay Area as well as NY, Seattle and LA make way more than 132k. a lot in Pittsburgh make that much or more. Not sure where they are getting their numbers but they are either outdated by about 5 years or just wrong.

But not every job at amazon will be engineering anyways. Look at a COL calculator and see what the difference between DC, Boston, NY, and Pittsburgh are. Also look at average salaries across the board in these cities. 30-80k less per person is absolutely in line with the savings. Cost of living: How far will my salary go in another city? - CNNMoney

In DC, they would need to pay approx 55% more per employee. in NYC, nearly 140% more.

I'm sure you can post some data to support that statement. They get their data from a report from earlier in 2016, so two years ago now. You can check for yourself if you want to give them a lot of personal data. https://hired.com/whitepapers/softwa...er-salary-data
Keep in mind this is "average" salary, not average for 10 years experience, etc. If anything, Denver's is high according to my resident software engineer.

Well, no, but those jobs and the high administration jobs are the most costly.

Please document this. No employer "has" to pay anyone anything other than minimum wage. Salaries are not directly correlated to the penny with the COL in a community.

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Seriously? The only thing that's cheaper in Pittsburgh than most of these other 19 cities is housing, and Pittsburgh is getting up there.

Here's a link with average software engineering salaries in some large cities:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-soft...-in-Seattle-WA
The highest are the SF Bay Area ($132K), followed by NY and Seattle at $125, LA at $122, and so forth. The only city paying under $100K is Atlanta ($96K). It's unlikely they could find any to work in Pittsburgh for less than that.

PayScale is a MUCH more relevant and accurate source for salary information (Software Engineers - Median):
National Average - $81K
Sunnyvale (Silicon Valley) - $111K
NYC - $95K
Boston - $86K
Alexandria (DC) - $80K
Philly - $77K
Atlanta - $76K
Dallas - $76K
Pittsburgh - $72K
Although really, I personally think these salaries for essentially the purely technical positions will have little to do with the decision. I mean, it's not too probable they will remain that way anyway (particularly for Pittsburgh), since many of these positions will likely have to be filled by recruiting "experienced" engineers (Degree + 5 Years) from out of the region.

[Katarina Witt]

^^OK, I'll buy that. Silicon Valley is out there as an outlier, NYC is up there, everywhere else is in the $70s/80Ks.

And you're right. No one is going to go to Pittsburgh for a lower salary.

[rickms]

In general, people don't (by choice) choose a job with a lower salery - anywhere.

All of this salary talk discussed above is useless. These are not 50,000 engineering jobs. Salaries will be all over the place, but at the end of the day, it would cost Amazon less in Pittsburgh and some other markets than Seattle, NYC, Silicon Valley and some high profile other contenders.

[lookingaround12345]

Originally Posted by jea6321

there are plenty of other reasons this area works very well. I just place it at the highest on the list because payroll savings are an instant day one advantage.

I highly doubt the "horrible roads" are even worth mentioning within a board room discussion of the pros and cons of each city. Can you honestly imagine that conversation among top level execs happening? " Well Jeff, by choosing Pittsburgh, we save an instant $1.2B year one on payroll expenses. However, even though there are multiple self driving car programs happening on their public roads, I just feel there were a lot of potholes and that just can't be overcome. I vote we go somewhere else."

Good point. It sounds like the Amazon people are actually more obsessed with bike trails of all things.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by lookingaround12345

Good point. It sounds like the Amazon people are actually more obsessed with bike trails of all things.

If you read Seattle's local news, the homeless have taken over their parks, including ones traversed by their new bike trails, making them harder to use.