Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
33% of the Gates at Pittsburgh airport have been closed off and they are planning a $1B+ overhaul, which they expect the airlines to pay for. Good luck with that. IMO, it's an HQ2 strategy ploy - but a pretty good one. If implemented, it'd likely either make PIT one of the most expensive airports in the country for airlines, OR require a partial subsidy via taxes. Where are the provable very close in population and wealth projections to support such an expense? Excluding Canada, so far there is 1 route stable carrier (DL), which offers international service - and that's seasonal to Paris. Icelandair just started year round service to Iceland and Thomas Cook Travel (WOW) started seasonal service to Germany.
Have you even researched your infrastructure claims, or even been to Philadelphia? Philadelphia 30th Street is Amtrak's 3rd busiest station with several Amtrak corporate offices (HQ is in DC) and 4.5M (Million) annual RIDERS and that doesn't include Regional Rail at Suburban Station. Pittsburgh has 145K (2017). Harrisburg has over 500K. https://www.amtrak.com/about-amtrak/...nal-facts.html
Additionally SEPTA integrates seamlessly with Amtrak at 30th Street Station and provides direct rail access from there to many locations, including a real International Airport. There are 14 M-F Amtrak trains between Philadelphia and Harrisburg and 1 between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg - and that's a thru train to Philadelphia. Guess its solely because Penndot hates Pittsburgh - Huh? Why should the state subsidize more Pittsburgh Amtrak service ? To where? There needs to be proven projected ridership on a route to produce state subsidies. The Philadelphia - Harrisburg Line had a $9.6M FY2018 Subsidy for the total 14 M-F Trains + several Weekend ones. The Pittsburgh - New York (via Philadelphia and Harrisburg) Line had a $4M FY 2018 - for 1 Train. Many Amtrak routes are supported via State and Local subsidies, so this is not at all unique to Pennsylvania.
Thank you for a post that indicates that you're a poster who knows what they're talking about.
In addition to the huge differential in connections with Harrisburg, Philadelphia is also on the Acela line (linking Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington) https://www.amtrak.com/acela-express-train
33% of the Gates at Pittsburgh airport have been closed off and they are planning a $1B+ overhaul, which they expect the airlines to pay for.
Source on 33% please.
Source that the airlines have to pay for it, not a grant from the FAA.
Maybe someone should come out from under their Philadelphia rock, and do some mild reading of their own. The reason a bunch of the gates are closed is because US Air built their hub here in the 90s when the airport was rebuilt and abandoned it in the early 2000s for Charlotte! Shhh it's a secret and NOBODY knows that.... But yeah keep thinking a fair amount of the gates are closed because Pittsburgh can't keep flights on its own when it's DOUBLED its domestic flights in the last 2 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
Good luck with that. IMO, it's an HQ2 strategy ploy - but a pretty good one. If implemented, it'd likely either make PIT one of the most expensive airports in the country for airlines, OR require a partial subsidy via taxes.
You know what's not a good sign? Philadelphia's airport had a drop of nearly 600,000 passengers from 2016 to 2017 a 2.1% drop! Yikes....
Pittsburgh had a rise of 700,000, a 8.2% gain. They also have doubled the number of domestic flights the past 2 years, I think we're doing fine thanks.
Anecdote, I'm going to New Orleans this weekend with my brother in law (lives in Bucks county). He's traveling out of Atlantic city because the round trip was $700 to NOLA, but mine was $170. Yeah our airport is going the most expensive
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
Where are the very close in population and wealth projections to support such an expense? Excluding Canada, so far there is 1 route stable carrier (DL), which offers international service - and that's seasonal to Paris. Icelandair just started year round service to Iceland and Thomas Cook Travel (WOW) started seasonal service to Germany.
See above. Also by the way have 3 canadian flights, by the way. 10 destinations in the Caribbean, and 3 to Europe.
We did just get a daily direct flight to Seattle by the way as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
Have you even researched your infrastructure claims, or even been to Philadelphia? Philadelphia 30th Street is Amtrak's 3rd busiest station with several Amtrak corporate offices
True, 30th st station is quite busy. I believe the comment he made was referring that Amtrak worldwide is not the best funded national rail system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
(HQ is in DC) and 4.5M (Million) annual RIDERS and that doesn't include Regional Rail at Suburban Station. Pittsburgh has 145K (2017). Harrisburg has over 500K. https://www.amtrak.com/about-amtrak/...nal-facts.html
Why would you ever include commuter rail numbers at a station a mile away in your Amtrak numbers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
Additionally SEPTA integrates seamlessly with Amtrak at 30th Street Station and provides direct rail access from there to many locations, including a real International Airport. There are 14 M-F Amtrak trains between Philadelphia and Harrisburg and 1 between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg - and that's a thru train to Philadelphia. Guess its solely because Penndot hates Pittsburgh - Huh?
No, it's because there's no reason to take a train through arguably the roughest stretch of track in the eastern United states? I have NO doubts the train would have way higher numbers if it was high speed and more direct but you would never admit that anyways. Keep thinking Harrisburg is some bastion of rail travel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acenturi
Why should the state subsidize more Pittsburgh Amtrak service ? To where? There needs to be proven projected ridership on a route to produce state subsidies. The Philadelphia - Harrisburg Line had a $9.6M FY2018 Subsidy for the total 14 M-F Trains + several Weekend ones. The Pittsburgh - New York (via Philadelphia and Harrisburg) Line had a $4M FY 2018 - for 1 Train. Many Amtrak routes are supported via State and Local subsidies, so this is not at all unique to Pennsylvania.
See above. Let me know how Harrisburgs rail transit it. Oh wait, it's some poor small city in central PA that has none and the rail line goes through because it's the capital. The people using amtrak in harrisburg commute to a large city on a HSR because it exists due to the easy geography! Yuppie for Harrisburg and Lancaster! If it were mountainous in between, there is no way there would be HSR between the two.
Amtrak is worthless around here, the train to NY leaves PGH at 7:30am and gets to NY at 5 pm. That is a day wasted. It is also $50 more to fly and you are there in an hour and a half.
33% of the Gates at Pittsburgh airport have been closed off and they are planning a $1B+ overhaul, which they expect the airlines to pay for. Good luck with that. IMO, it's an HQ2 strategy ploy - but a pretty good one. If implemented, it'd likely either make PIT one of the most expensive airports in the country for airlines, OR require a partial subsidy via taxes. Where are the provable very close in population and wealth projections to support such an expense? Excluding Canada, so far there is 1 route stable carrier (DL), which offers international service - and that's seasonal to Paris. Icelandair just started year round service to Iceland and Thomas Cook Travel (WOW) started seasonal service to Germany.
Have you even researched your infrastructure claims, or even been to Philadelphia? Philadelphia 30th Street is Amtrak's 3rd busiest station with several Amtrak corporate offices (HQ is in DC) and 4.5M (Million) annual RIDERS and that doesn't include Regional Rail at Suburban Station. Pittsburgh has 145K (2017). Harrisburg has over 500K. https://www.amtrak.com/about-amtrak/...nal-facts.html
Additionally SEPTA integrates seamlessly with Amtrak at 30th Street Station and provides direct rail access from there to many locations, including a real International Airport. There are 14 M-F Amtrak trains between Philadelphia and Harrisburg and 1 between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg - and that's a thru train to Philadelphia. Guess its solely because Penndot hates Pittsburgh - Huh? Why should the state subsidize more Pittsburgh Amtrak service ? To where? There needs to be proven projected ridership on a route to produce state subsidies. The Philadelphia - Harrisburg Line had a $9.6M FY2018 Subsidy for the total 14 M-F Trains + several Weekend ones. The Pittsburgh - New York (via Philadelphia and Harrisburg) Line had a $4M FY 2018 - for 1 Train. Many Amtrak routes are supported via State and Local subsidies, so this is not at all unique to Pennsylvania.
1) Have I ever been to Philadelphia? I moved to Pittsburgh after having lived there for a few years, have about half my family who still lives in the city and some in Norristown, Collegeville, and Bucks County. I continue to work on average about one week per month in Philadelphia. I am a huge booster of Philadelphia and in fact I believe you and I have at least one conversation boosting the city on this message board. This of course is all easily verifiable by looking through my posting history.
2) Closing gates at the airport does not equate to abandoning a terminal, which was the conversation I was responding to. I'm not sure where your 33% comes from and to be honest the gates are not at all permanently closed. I was surprised to have landed last month and brought in through A22 to learn that the wall had been removed.
3) Everything I've read about the terminal modernization project at the airport indicates that the airlines support the decision. Can you provide evidence that they will be burdened by it or have indicated that they feel that way?
4) As far as my infrastructure claims I was refuting the posters claim that only in Pittsburgh are our highways and roadways inadequate or crumbling. The entire state suffers from the freeze-thaw cycle that creates maga potholes. Philadelphia is a city with older water and sewage infrastructure as well and narrow streets that were not constructed with automobiles in mind. The Schuylkill expressway is antiquated and burdened by the volume of traffic it has, just as the parkways in and out of Pittsburgh are here.
5) Of course Philadelphia is blessed to be on the NEC for Amtrak; I'm not a moron for god's sake. Of course Amtrak receives subsidies from other states as well. I was simply stating that it frequencies are going to be increased on the western side of the states PennDot is going to have to pony up some money for that. I never insinuated that "PennDot hates Pittsburgh..." There are Keystone West, studies, to show that the western part of the state would benefit from increased frequency if you google it. Lawmakers work for us so what I was saying is that if it's really a priority for people, they should push them to change funding. As far as to where, the poster whom I was responding to was bemoaning lack of connection to the East Coast so clearly an expanded Keystone service would be beneficial if that's the case.
FWIW I really found the tone of some parts of your post to be unnecessarily harsh and offensive; I do not go around making bull**** posts on here. Rereading my original post I can see it may have been confusing when I wrote "If you think it's any better in Philadelphia you're kidding yourself" after "If you have a problem with the infrastructure or the Amtrak schedule that is largely the responsibility of the state (PENNDOT) not the city of Pittsburgh itself in most cases" but that was intended to refer to infrastructure (roads, highways) and not specifically Amtrak.
I agree with Craz. From a weather standpoint, I'm not sure anywhere is safer than Pittsburgh.
I'm not dis-agreeing! I would like to know where the pictures were taken.
Safe is in the eye of the beholder, too, sometimes. I've been hearing about and seeing pictures of all these landslides you guys have been having lately.
I think most of the east coast cities are as "safe" as Pittsburgh. DC tends to go crazy over snow, but they don't get *all* that much. Miami is vulnerable to hurricanes. Columbus, Nashville, Dallas, and Austin are also pretty weather neutral. Chicago and Indy have some heavy snows and are in an area that gets tornadoes, though I don't know if one has touched down in either city. Denver has its heavy snows that close the airport every few years, has had one tornado in the 37 years I've lived in the area. Seattle's weather is safe but dreary, though no more dreary than Pittsburgh. LA has its fires, though I don't know if the city has ever had one.
Seattle and LA are vulnerable to earthquakes, as they are on the ring of fire. Seattle has a volcano nearby. Southern CA is very vulnerable to drought.
Denver? Long lasting droughts are the threat there and in the entire southwest US and southern Great Plains. In the long run, only much smaller cities can be supported than you find today. Visit the ruins in places like Chaco Canyon or Mesa Verde to see the remnants of previous centuries-long droughts.
NYC has periodic earthquakes. Though not common, most of the city has been constructed since the last one. The next one will be very destructive.
The South and midwest have frequent tornadoes.
If you do some reading about pre Columbian native civilizations and their demise, you get a pretty good idea why native Americans were still living in the stone age when Europeans arrived.
In Europe, civilization flourished on the Mediterranean. The weather was more benign and the sea allowed for trade. If one civilization was destroyed, another soon replaced it. You don't see that in America pre 1600.
It was the weather that destroyed the native American civilizations every time they got some momentum going. Those conditions are bound to return.
It's not very restful if you don't pay for a bedroom. The ticket with bedroom costs more than an airplane ticket unless you are going with someone and split that cost.
Of course, even at the same ticket price, a train trip should be cheaper overall than flying for most. The train stations are usually more centrally located and thus you don't have to pay as much to get to and from the station.
Last edited by Moby Hick; 04-17-2018 at 10:48 AM..
Reason: Added second paragraph
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But yeah keep thinking a fair amount of the gates are closed because Pittsburgh can't keep flights on its own when it's DOUBLED its domestic flights in the last 2 years. 
a 2.1% drop! Yikes....
