Are walkability and urban living important to real life Yinzers? (Pittsburgh: rentals, low crime)

[svband76]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

The business district in Dormont in the 3200 block of West Liberty Ave had the following when I was growing up:

2 small grocers
TV and stereo retailer
Doctors office
Dentists office
The original AB Charles hobby shop
2 stinky bars
Hardware store
Isalys
Pharmacy with a soda fountain
Notary
Restaurant
Bakery
Pizza shop
Dry cleaners

Ab Charles Hobby Shop - the original location there - ahh was so sweet. I can even remember how it smelled. They even sold beer cans too back when collecting was popular.


Don't forget Potomac Avenue and the late super great Slim Bryant's card store. He is a Country & Western Music legend who lived to 100 and taught guitar into his 90s! $7 a lesson and this was only 10 years ago.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by zalewskimm

Ab Charles Hobby Shop - the original location there - ahh was so sweet. I can even remember how it smelled. They even sold beer cans too back when collecting was popular.


Don't forget Potomac Avenue and the late super great Slim Bryant's card store. He is a Country & Western Music legend who lived to 100 and taught guitar into his 90s! $7 a lesson and this was only 10 years ago.

Potomac was another business district that served the population on that side of Dormont. Remember, Dormont is 1 square mile yet had 2 business districts plus Banksville plaza.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by norcider

Do convenience stores really sell canned goods?

Yes. Soup, broth, tomatoes. Spaghettios. Not a great selection. Our local 7/11 also sells butter and margarine in small packs and for some reason, bananas.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

None of which you want to walk to on a daily basis.

I agree. But how many businesses aside from coffee shops do people go to on a daily basis? I mean if I lived in NYC or somewhere equally urban I'd probably do shopping 3 times a week, one backpack of groceries at a time, but even then it wouldn't be daily.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I agree. But how many businesses aside from coffee shops do people go to on a daily basis? I mean if I lived in NYC or somewhere equally urban I'd probably do shopping 3 times a week, one backpack of groceries at a time, but even then it wouldn't be daily.

The point is, when neighborhood business districts were thriving, people DID visit the shops on a daily basis. I know my mother did, as did the legion of mothers who were home all day. The social structure changed and the need for walkable business districts declined. Now their purpose is fading further as more brick and mortar goes away. When neighborhood business districts were needed, there were no estabishments dedicated to coffee.

Today "walkable" is just a milllenial fad except for the need for a nearby bar to avoid drunk driving laws.

[fleetiebelle]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

The point is, when neighborhood business districts were thriving, people DID visit the shops on a daily basis. I know my mother did, as did the legion of mothers who were home all day. The social structure changed and the need for walkable business districts declined. Now their purpose is fading further as more brick and mortar goes away. When neighborhood business districts were needed, there were no estabishments dedicated to coffee.

Today "walkable" is just a milllenial fad except for the need for a nearby bar to avoid drunk driving laws.

I've read some articles about how walkable isn't just for millennials--as seniors age out of driving, living in a walkable neighborhood keeps them active and less isolated. A senior living on a cul-de-sac in a distant burb can't walk to church or the pharmacy or the diner, and depends on others to drive them.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

I've read some articles about how walkable isn't just for millennials--as seniors age out of driving, living in a walkable neighborhood keeps them active and less isolated. A senior living on a cul-de-sac in a distant burb can't walk to church or the pharmacy or the diner, and depends on others to drive them.

I guarantee if a person can't drive, they are very unlikely to be walking very far.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

The point is, when neighborhood business districts were thriving, people DID visit the shops on a daily basis. I know my mother did, as did the legion of mothers who were home all day. The social structure changed and the need for walkable business districts declined. Now their purpose is fading further as more brick and mortar goes away. When neighborhood business districts were needed, there were no establishments dedicated to coffee.

There's no going back to that system, due to a combination of the decline of stay-at-home mothers, the rise of supermarkets and other stories where you could buy a lot in one trip and truck it home, and the recent rise in online retailing.

Many urban planners have raised the point that neighborhood business districts are fundamentally not sustainable anymore due to these changing shopping patterns at "streetcar suburban" densities. Even though that's what planned "New Urbanism: tries to do - give everyone a townhouse or a detached home with a tiny yard, with a little local business district to walk to. In order to get thriving business districts today you need much, much higher population densities - more apartment level.

FWIW though, the decline of brick-and-mortar retail is hitting the suburbs much, much harder than the city.

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

Today "walkable" is just a milllenial fad except for the need for a nearby bar to avoid drunk driving laws.

Plenty of young people utilize amenities in their local business district besides bars and restaurants if they're close enough to walk to them. At the same time, I know I've read in NYC, there are now so many Amazon packages being shipped that drivers typically have to park in one spot and then hand-deliver everything on the block with hand carts. Basically the delivery system is on the precipice of breaking down because there's so much online shopping now. Plus younger people spend a lot more time indoors on their phones that used to be "outside time" in the past.

Also, keep in mind "walkable" never went out of style anywhere else in the world. The U.S. is basically returning to the norm you see in other countries, where city centers are full of wealthier people - generally without kids. That's why I think it's wrongheaded to call this a fad. It looks more and more like the period the U.S. went through from 1950-2000 or so was the real aberration.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There's no going back to that system, due to a combination of the decline of stay-at-home mothers, the rise of supermarkets and other stories where you could buy a lot in one trip and truck it home, and the recent rise in online retailing.

Many urban planners have raised the point that neighborhood business districts are fundamentally not sustainable anymore due to these changing shopping patterns at "streetcar suburban" densities. Even though that's what planned "New Urbanism: tries to do - give everyone a townhouse or a detached home with a tiny yard, with a little local business district to walk to. In order to get thriving business districts today you need much, much higher population densities - more apartment level.

FWIW though, the decline of brick-and-mortar retail is hitting the suburbs much, much harder than the city.



Plenty of young people utilize amenities in their local business district besides bars and restaurants if they're close enough to walk to them. At the same time, I know I've read in NYC, there are now so many Amazon packages being shipped that drivers typically have to park in one spot and then hand-deliver everything on the block with hand carts. Basically the delivery system is on the precipice of breaking down because there's so much online shopping now. Plus younger people spend a lot more time indoors on their phones that used to be "outside time" in the past.

Also, keep in mind "walkable" never went out of style anywhere else in the world. The U.S. is basically returning to the norm you see in other countries, where city centers are full of wealthier people - generally without kids. That's why I think it's wrongheaded to call this a fad. It looks more and more like the period the U.S. went through from 1950-2000 or so was the real aberration.

Except for mall shopping, I'm not seeing the retail decline in the burbs. I don't go to malls, so I'm not really sure how bad it is at say South Hills Village. Century III is a unique case. I live near Caste Village, which is booming and always busy. It serves a much larger population than any walkable neighborhood business district because you can drive to it.

In terms of development, there has been a lot of new construction of medical facilities - places like Cool Springs and Bethel Park Wellness Center. The latter has everything, including, doctors, outpatient surgery, cancer treatment, diagnostic facilities...These types of facilities are being built all over the suburbs and will reduce the need to travel to the city for medical care. And land costs are much cheaper.

Decentralized service provision is the future, and that reinforces the suburbs, not the city.

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Also, keep in mind "walkable" never went out of style anywhere else in the world. The U.S. is basically returning to the norm you see in other countries, where city centers are full of wealthier people - generally without kids. That's why I think it's wrongheaded to call this a fad. It looks more and more like the period the U.S. went through from 1950-2000 or so was the real aberration.

^this 100%