We lost a place in Friendship . . . (Pittsburgh, Georgetown: home, neighborhoods, schools)

[BrianTH]

kettlepot,

You are right this is an economic puzzle, and the only plausible answer is what I would call a demand-side shock: there must have been an increase in demand for house rentals, and supply hasn't yet had time to adjust. Note that there is always some adjustment period to a demand-side shock because it takes a while for developers to bring new properties to market, even if they are starting with properties that just need some renovation. And probably right now the adjustment period is unusually long, because the national system for financing and developing residential properties is in tatters thanks to the bursting of the housing bubble, and likely that is slowing things down even in non-bubble areas like Pittsburgh.

[Hopes]

I think it has more to do with house rentals than apartment rentals. Most houses are owned in Pittsburgh.

The few houses that are rented get snatched up quickly. It has always been this way for houses--even in the 80s.

Nobody wants to live in the areas that lost population so the population decline is almost irrelevant when it comes to availability of housing.

[kettlepot]

Brian,

I understand the impact a demand shock can have (for those reading over our shoulders that would be a Gold Rush type situation), Pittsburgh is a city that theoretically has enough housing for 700,000 people. Ok, even if you account for the crowded conditions that existed when the city was 700,000 that wouldn't be tolerated today, and that some of the housing has been lost and not replaced over the past half century, there would still seem to be space for an extra 100,000 people in this city just sitting vacant. So, in the end, I'm not convinced by the demand shock argument.

What about the idea that much of the vacant housing in Pittsburgh is substandard and not acceptable for Americans of the 21st century? Is the issue more a question not of there not being enough rentals, but that there aren't enough rentals that meet modern standards for housing? Perhaps the renters are mostly seeking newly built or newly refurbished housing, but the rentals are poorly constructed tenement rowhouses from the 1920s? Therefore, perhaps there's plenty of space, just not enough quality space?

(Please don't take any of the above to be a disparagement of the charm and quality craftsmanship found in many Pittsburgh area homes and neighborhoods that make the architecture of this area truly awesome and worthy of historic protection)

Hopes,

A very interesting point. It may be very relevant to my tenement rowhouse theory.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

[T]here would still seem to be space for an extra 100,000 people in this city just sitting vacant. So, in the end, I'm not convinced by the demand shock argument.

I agree about the extra capacity, but it isn't immediately marketable. First you have to acquire the property, then do a new build or renovate, then put the unit on the market. That process takes time and money. The basic point of the demand shock theory is that if you look back in time to when this process would have to have been started to meet the demand of today, people didn't realize the demand of today was going to be showing up.

What about the idea that much of the vacant housing in Pittsburgh is substandard and not acceptable for Americans of the 21st century? Is the issue more a question not of there not being enough rentals, but that there aren't enough rentals that meet modern standards for housing? Perhaps the renters are mostly seeking newly built or newly refurbished housing, but the rentals are poorly constructed tenement rowhouses from the 1920s? Therefore, perhaps there's plenty of space, just not enough quality space?

Well, there are certainly plenty of vacant properties that are not poorly constructed rowhouses--either they are empty lots, or have a higher-quality shell, or so on. So that isn't the answer per se.

On the other hand, as implied above I agree that there aren't a lot of properties immediately marketable: you have to build on the vacant lot, renovate the higher-quality shells, or so on. But again, that is really just a question of time and money, and so if the demand is there, eventually the supply will show up.

In fact even neighborhood effects aren't sustainable. There are always transition zones, and the developing community know exactly how to push into a transition zone and rebrand it. Again, there are questions of time and money--but if the opportunity is there, eventually it will get met.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Sounds like she went with Greenfield.

While I assured her it's a safe neighborhood, I didn't provide any other encouragement because I'm not sure of the schools.

Then again, the schools can't be worse than the ones in Friendship.

If she wants city living, Greenfield is comparable to Friendship.

As a matter of fact, she really lucked out on losing that place in Friendship.

She was worried that Greenfield was near Homewood, but Friendship is literally right next to Garfield---a ghetto.

Greenfield is okay. It's not Mt. Lebo but schools don't seem to be her primary concern.

If I'm not mistaken, Greenfield feeds into Allderdice. Can't imagine there are too many issues in the K-8 level either. If schools are a concern, Greenfield is pretty much as good as it gets for living in the city.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Drover

If I'm not mistaken, Greenfield feeds into Allderdice. Can't imagine there are too many issues in the K-8 level either. If schools are a concern, Greenfield is pretty much as good as it gets for living in the city.

I agree that the schools for Greenfield have to be better than the schools for Friendship.

[BrianTH]

The Allderdice feeder pattern is indeed arguably the best feeder pattern in the City. But I might note the Montessori PreK-8 magnet school is located in Friendship.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The Allderdice feeder pattern is indeed arguably the best feeder pattern in the City. But I might note the Montessori PreK-8 magnet school is located in Friendship.

But there is no guarantee that a Friendship resident will attend that magnet school.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

But there is no guarantee that a Friendship resident will attend that magnet school.

True. When we were looking at Friendship as a possible place to raise our family, we talked about trying to get into that school, and using one of the local private schools as a backup plan.

[newhope321]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm very happy that I (and the rest of my comrades here) could help. And I hope you enjoy it here as much as my family does. And finally, you better not start serving quality Latin/Mexican food somewhere in the area without telling us!

Never happen, BrianTH! Personally, I am welcoming you to a tasting meal before we roll the whole thing out!