Who here has actually read a Marx work? (school, bias, money)

[dunks_galore]

Here's a simple, straightforward video by a real, prominent Marxist.


YouTube - RSA Animate - Crises of Capitalism

[Chango]

Marx's ideas and how they were interpreted/implemented are two different things. Most folks don't seem to realize that and catagorize him with the dyed in the wool communists like Lenin, Stalin or dear Chairman Mao.

Marx actually was a smart guy and had a lot good ideas...in theory. He shouldn't be marginalized and/or automatically discounted (and honestly, he isn't) in educated discussion

[YanniCheengus]

Originally Posted by Chango

Marx's ideas and how they were interpreted/implemented are two different things. Most folks don't seem to realize that and catagorize him with the dyed in the wool communists like Lenin, Stalin or dear Chairman Mao.

Marx actually was a smart guy and had a lot good ideas...in theory. He shouldn't be marginalized and/or automatically discounted (and honestly, he isn't) in educated discussion

I seriously doubt Marx would consider Stalin or Mao a Communist. Workers paradise? More like workers nightmare.

[TruthBeautyGoodness]

I read Marx's "alienation of labor" recently and I actually agree with a lot of what he says, but my response to the problem he brings up is quite different.

[ovcatto]

But don't test me, it's been more than 30 years.

The Manifesto
Value Price and Profit
Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
Kapital Vol I

Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State (yeah that was Engels but when you're bragging...)

[evilnewbie]

Originally Posted by YanniCheengus

Have you read any of his works?

Yes... its a fool's thought... a stateless society where there is no wage? We have HAD stateless society in the primitive times of humanity... you know what? It didn't work out... you can't get something for nothing, that's not how society worked before the invention of money or in make-up land... A society without wages doesn't change the fact that to get me to do something its got to be worth my while.... Marx brushed it aside saying we will do it "just because I said so" doesn't go over well with me but his fans missed it completely... unless there is someone with a gun telling me I have to or threaten me, it ain't going to happen...

[dunks_galore]

In my opinion, everyone in college should be required to at least read the first few chapters of Kapital on money and the commodity form.

[evilnewbie]

Originally Posted by dunks_galore

In my opinion, everyone in college should be required to at least read the first few chapters of Kapital on money and the commodity form.

In my opinion everyone should read and implicitly understand the US Constitution and what it all means before graduating from high school....

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Chango

Marx's ideas and how they were interpreted/implemented are two different things. Most folks don't seem to realize that and catagorize him with the dyed in the wool communists like Lenin, Stalin or dear Chairman Mao.

Well Marx was no less dyed in the wool that any of them, the only problem (well not the only problem) is that they ignored his arguments that you couldn't have a socialist state until capitalism had reached its highest level of development. Imperial Russia was barely a capitalist state and even more barely an industrial one. As for China... shouldn't have even been mentioned in the same breath.

But I still hold a great deal of his analysis regarding the effects of capitalism on the working class as being right on the money. What to do about is a whole other issue.

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

In my opinion everyone should read and implicitly understand the US Constitution and what it all means before graduating from high school....

US Constitution doesn't deal with capitalism versus Marxism. So you may stop your attempt at deflection and stick with the topic at hand.