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Lets stick to the topic first, so you have a better idea about Marx and Marxism and before you talk about it with any authority.
Not being educated on Marxism beyond a superficial way (for example googling up to claim to be an expert on the subject), I will now step out and observe.
I never claimed to be an "expert" on Marxism but I have read it many years ago... I remember some things and not other things but for you to be an idiot and keep making baseless ASSumptions about me, speaks alot of your own idiocy that you cannot see...
I do not work for free.... I didn't tear down anything just because you "said" so... strawman argument? That explains Marx to a "T"...
So basically you don't know what you're talking about and are now going to flail around because you either don't understand or haven't read Marx. That's about what I expected. Within Marxism your relation to "work" is entirely formed by your situatedness in the capitalist system and the alienation of labor under capital.
But who can argue with someone who purports to understand "innate human behavior".
I don't need to read through it because I understand the final concept of Marx stateless society... a society where one magically loses their innate drive to not work for free.... never happened at any point in your limited human existence and guess what, won't happen "just because" we have a stateless society either.... you still don't refute but make baseless accusations about me... lol... nothing new with same OLD crowd... can't prove them wrong so attack their character instead...
I don't need to read through it because I understand the final concept of Marx stateless society... a society where one magically loses their innate drive to not work for free.... never happened at any point in your limited human existence and guess what, won't happen "just because" we have a stateless society either.... you still don't refute but make baseless accusations about me... lol... nothing new with same OLD crowd... can't prove them wrong so attack their character instead...
What is there to refute? You still haven't said anything except that people will never work for free, which is not verifiable nor is it what Marx claimed. You're basically repeating yourself over and over again with embarrassing consistency.
Let me try this another way. In the final stage of Marx's theory of history, people will work to sustain their own lives. Hence statelessness. How would be people be able to live and consume goods without working if there is no state?
What is there to refute? You still haven't said anything except that people will never work for free, which is not verifiable nor is it what Marx claimed. You're basically repeating yourself over and over again with embarrassing consistency.
Let me try this another way. In the final stage of Marx's theory of history, people will work to sustain their own lives. Hence statelessness. How would be people be able to live and consume goods without working if there is no state?
Nothing to refute?? People don't work for free is not verifiable? Are you an idiot?
Marx claimed a wageless society in his stateless society and that people would continue doing things cause they "just will"... work to sustain their lives? Like what living in a cabin and going hunting? We are way passed that point... YOU CANNOT CONSUME GOODS FOR FREE EITHER... so how does that eliminate the class system? You still can't refute it... Marx wanted a WAGELESS society along with a CLASSLESS society, how is that going to happen when people don't work for free and goods aren't consume for free either... who's going to manage the internet for you? What are you going to do for them? Free ain't happening and Marx never understood that... He is spot on with the class system, the inequities, and the capitalist system but those were observations, his proposal about a stateless society goes way beyond observation to desire...
I would throw out that who has read Mein Kampf? I mean its on the other side of the spectrum but just as demonized. I have read that its a dry read but very interesting.
It is a good thing to be open to both sides and try to learn about something you weren't aware of or open to. Then, when you take a stand, it actually is based on firmer grounds rather than perception and preconceived notions.
It is why you won't find me in excessively liberal forums. But you will in some very conservative/neo-con driven forums (if they don't ban me for exercising words like misrepresentations, lies etc).
Nothing to refute?? People don't work for free is not verifiable? Are you an idiot?
Well I don't know if it is idiocy, completely. We do have examples of people "working" for nothing more that the intrinsic value that their work produces. People coach youth league sports without monetary enumeration, they provide care for the aged and infirmed, counseling for troubled youth and a slew of other services for which they are not payed in any form of wage.
The same could be argued for those who create art and music. So perhaps in some distant age people will work for solely for the intrinsic value that they derive from being productive members of a society. In point of fact it may become necessary as automation inexorably makes human labor unnecessary, unneeded and unwanted.
While I find such a scenario to be exceedingly utopian and unrealizable even in the distant future. I can't but help think that there may come a time in course of human civilization that we arrive at some Startrekian version of a utopian society, our very survival as a species may depend upon it.
Of course it is difficult to imagine such a time because we tend to view human civilization through a very narrow historical window, but our present economic and political systems account for only a mere fraction of our existence of as a species. Who can discount such a formation a thousand years hence.
Oh, enough ethereal musings about the human condition.
That isn't their "job"... hobbies don't count either nor doing things they enjoy... just because I like to travel doesn't mean its a "job" ... there has never been a time where a job didn't exist and that job required something... in the classless society/wageless society there is NO reward for a job otherwise you disrupt its balance... and yes, a Star Trek society (or even Marx society) may seem nice but ultimately, its just that... a dream... Marx thought it was a logical conclusion but it was a dream and people come around professing its real... it can't be cause we don't do anything for free.... the coach will not coach 8 hour days for free cause if they did, they end up in the big leagues earning million dollar salaries.... and musicians don't create music 8 hours a day otherwise they would sell their music to the next Brittney Spears or whoever is popular nowadays...
Nothing to refute?? People don't work for free is not verifiable? Are you an idiot?
Marx claimed a wageless society in his stateless society and that people would continue doing things cause they "just will"... work to sustain their lives? Like what living in a cabin and going hunting? We are way passed that point... YOU CANNOT CONSUME GOODS FOR FREE EITHER... so how does that eliminate the class system? You still can't refute it... Marx wanted a WAGELESS society along with a CLASSLESS society, how is that going to happen when people don't work for free and goods aren't consume for free either... who's going to manage the internet for you? What are you going to do for them? Free ain't happening and Marx never understood that... He is spot on with the class system, the inequities, and the capitalist system but those were observations, his proposal about a stateless society goes way beyond observation to desire...
Why are you quoting things that Marx did not actually say? At this point you're purposefully distorting things, and your notion of "free" is so hilariously removed from his argument about labor and alienation that you clearly cannot detach your thinking from your perception of work within the capitalist system, especially since you also can't understand why a wageless society is a given in the communist stage.
If I live in a society where I am not compelled to work and property is produced and share in a classless system, and my labor supports the continuation of that society, I am not working "for free"
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